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Vancouver’s Compass Card, still in tests after two years. Typical for transit smart cards or no?

April 13th, 2015 · 19 Comments

Transit smart cards are the in thing these days, I’ve discovered. Everyone wants them, in order to keep tabs on how transit is getting used and to give customers all the options they want for paying things these days.

Even systems that installed earlier versions, like Washington and Chicago, are upgrading their systems so they can expand to more modes and more ways of payment. (The hot thing these days is making sure systems have the capability to accept payments from bank and credit cards, not just a transit-only loaded-value card.)

I took a look around and called some people in the business for a story I did in the wake of the announcement about TransLink’s plan to roll out the card to another 130,000 people — university students — by September, bringing the total number of cards in use to 215,000. Still nowhere near the 1.2-million users a day but not peanuts.

It was interesting to find out that Calgary, for example, actually ended the contract with its vendor after years of not getting the system going and then had to go back because there weren’t any other options. And they’re still waiting, after about as many years as Vancouver. Other systems have rolled out their cards to everyone early, i.e. in Chicago, and then had some disastrous glitches that enraged people.

What I got from several long conversations was that it’s not always easy to tell from the outside who is the real problem: the transit agency for asking for too much? or the contractor for promising too much and then not delivering?

Sometimes it’s neither, consultants said — more a question of both sides constantly upgrading the functionality as things change in their worlds or discovering that something that worked in three other cities doesn’t work here.

 

 

Categories: Uncategorized

  • Lysenko’s Nemesis

    Maybe I should just vote Yes and give them a few more billion to try and figure it out.

    We’re obviously stuck with the U.S. Compass system now. They probably have a deal where we can’t fire them, like their CEOs. If we cancel the contract we still have to use Compass and pay Cubic a few million in severance.

    Heads they win, tails we lose.

  • boohoo

    Living in Seoul over 10 years ago they had a card based system that worked great on all trains and busses, was reloadable at any kiosk or 7-11 and I don’t remember any issues with tapping in or anything like that.

    I know people there now who say you can use in taxis and to purchase things in some stores. Basically soon enough it’ll be your debit and transit card in one.

    But, Seoul’s transit system is miles ahead of Vancouver in pretty much all facets and Korea is miles ahead in technology based things so, it’s not surprising.

  • Mike

    Frances, I just moved back from Ottawa, as you know. Presto is their version of Compass, altho it is delivered in partnership with a province-wide transportation authority called Metrolinx.

    Metrolinx initiated the project in 2007 and had started to roll it out to a number of small systems in the GTA in 2010(!). Ottawa’s roll-out was delayed at least a year, from 2012 to 2013…and this was after 5 full years of development and testing in smaller markets (and Ottawa is a fraction of the size of Metro Van – a much simpler system with one zone and a small geographic area and ridership).

    Toronto is still waiting for their Presto launch a full 7 years after they started the project (the first pilot project was at the TTC’s Union Station) and it won’t be fully deployed until 2016.

    – Mike Buda

  • penguinstorm

    Translink’s implementation isn’t out of the blue. It’s not the first install for the _exact same system._ It is reasonable to expect that a firm that’s delivered the same project a few times _should be able to deliver it according to schedule._

    This leads to a question that’s worth asking: do you think Translink had anything that even _approached_ a reasonable project plan and or requirements document for what they wanted, or do you think they just bought a system and figured it would work?

    It’s entirely possible that Translink was oversold. It happens a _lot_ in the tech industry. Given what we know about Translink it’s equally plausible that they organization failed completely to act in the way that a well run business would have.

  • Wayne Worden

    It’s very hard to understand how transit and fare card experts ever thought ‘tap out’ on buses would work effectively. It’s a potential gong show that seems bound to generate unbelievable chaos.

  • boohoo

    As mentioned, I used it for 2 years in Seoul without issue. It is possible and was very smooth.

  • A Taxpayer

    You said you tapped in but didn’t mention tapping out on the bus which I believe is the issue with the Compass card.

  • Brad Cavanagh

    Which other system has Cubic done that is exactly the same as the one here?

  • boohoo

    It was tap in, tap out. My route to work was tap on the bus, tap off the bus, tap on the train, tap off the train. All without issue.

    I got a discount on the overall fare for using the card, and as long as I made my transfer with 30 mins, it was considered one trip. Very efficient, very fast, very good.

    Google Seoul transit and read about it, it’s a fantastic system.

  • AllThat

    I think what’s ‘key’ about the tap-out concept—at least in the users eye—is that the discount could be applied. Don’t tap out, and you get no discount. Carrot and stick. It deems easy to do. Have your card ready. Some places are actually using tap-in AT the bus stop, prior to boarding. That could work at choke points.

    I do hear that TL is considering not using tap-out. But then I wonder…unless going one fare over all zones, how does that work?
    If there’s no record of you tapping out would it cost you, in some way?

  • AllThat

    I heard that there was a software change just as TL bought the package. Not the same as HK, for instance. hat would gum up the timing.

  • AllThat

    Mike, if that is the case, why hasn’t TL let people know that? This is the kind of lack of information/transparency that doesn’t work for people. They could have referenced all the aforementioned projects—but haven”t. Dumb.

  • boohoo

    I would assume if you tap in but don’t tap out you’d just get charged a 3 zone fare or whatever the highest fare at the time is.

  • Kisai

    Korea and Japan can’t even begin to be compared to Translink+Cubic ‘s system. Part if it is their banking system and lack of credit cards.

    It would be like trying to get every transit provider in Canada to accept the same card. Yeah… not ever going to happen unless it’s the Interac card.

  • Kisai

    London and Sydney http://cts.cubic.com/Portals/CTS/13-CTS-NEXTWAVE-BROCHURE-US-LETTER-final-singlepages-lores.pdf

  • Brad Cavanagh

    London doesn’t have tap-out on buses.

    Sydney’s is slightly different in that the straight-line distance between getting on and off a bus is used instead of TransLink’s zone system. Sydney’s also doesn’t allow for monthly fares as we have here.

  • HKHoward

    Frances – I lived in Hong Kong for more than 20 years and the Octopus card in use there works on buses, trains, the MTR subway and ferries. You can even buy groceries with it! I know that Translink came to Hong Kong to review the transportation system there and I wonder why they didn’t just adopt the Octopus system – it works perfectly well for millions of trips every day.

  • boohoo

    Point is, tap in and out can and does work successfully.

  • penguinstorm

    Are you suggesting that the vendor is responsible because there’s even a SINGLE difference in the software?

    Zones were in place when the RFP went out. Presumably Translink outlined that as a requirement. Presumably

    Tap out was not in place. I’d have expected that to be a defined requirement and, at worst, to work with the vendor to refine the requirement to one that met the business need adequately.