Frances Bula header image 2

New developments in Vancouver far outpace what regional plan says population should grow by: residents

November 3rd, 2013 · 121 Comments

As some of you careful readers might have noted in the past, I am not always an admirer of the way opposition groups do war.

Saying they’ve been treated disrespectfully by city hall politicians and staff, they then proceed to issue statements and write blog comments that make them sound like foul-mouthed 13-year-olds.

Complaining that city planners and engineers have been deceptive, they circulate wonky bits of information and “facts” that suit their rhetorical purposes at the moment.

They’re not doing themselves any favours, that’s for sure.

But the new Coalition of Vancouver Neighbourhoods has just issued a news release that deserves to be taken seriously and debated.

The group has looked at the population number that Metro Vancouver set as a target for the city in its recently passed Regional Growth Strategy. (To see it for yourself, go here.) It’s worked out what kind of growth that means per year if Vancouver is going to get to 740,000 b6 2041 from the approximately 630,000 it’s at now. And it has compared that to the actual number of completions of new units currently going on.

There are lots of issues still to be considered here: for example, does it matter what the RGS says, if people are moving here and prepared to outbid existing residents for housing if they can’t find enough supply?

But the numbers at least help us put what’s going on in context.

As I’d said in previous blog posts (or tweets or something), one of the things that’s making people uncomfortable about the current community plans is the sense that city planners are just jamming in maximum density wherever they think they can. Residents have had no sense of what projected rate of growth for their area is, no chance to talk about whether they think that projected rate is reasonable, no sense of whether the new density in plans matches that rate, and no sense of what the end game is at all.

The release is copied below

November 4, 2013
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
What’s The Rush? Vancouver Communities Question Rapid Rate of Development
Vancouver, B.C. – The City of Vancouver is accepting proposals and approving residential construction five times faster than their own projections demand.
According to the Regional Context Statement approved by Vancouver City Council in June this year, the planners anticipate that Vancouver will see an increase of 153,800 people in the thirty-five years from 2006 to 2041 – a rate of an additional 4,350 people per year.
It is this expected increase of 153,800 people that the City says demands the densification plans they have been pushing.
However, since 2011, the city has already proposed or approved sufficient new housing to accommodate 43,000 people. In just two years, this planned housing satisfies 28% of the growth the city projects being required over the next 35 years.
This rapid pace is not justified by the city’s own projections. Continuing at this blistering pace of development, the city will reach its own 2041 targets by 2019, twenty-two years ahead of schedule.
Coalition of Vancouver Neighbourhoods spokesperson Jak King noted that “these numbers do not include any units that were approved between 2006 and 2011 for which we do not have figures but which we believe add significantly to this total.” The Coalition of Vancouver Neighbourhoods represents community associations across the City, and is seeking a new and more respectful and involved relationship between the City and its neighbourhoods.
“The Coalition supports well-planned, reasonably-paced growth, with developments that are aligned with the interests of local communities,” said co-chair Fern Jeffries. “We want our local communities to be a respected and influential part of the process, to ensure that the increased density is consistent with neighbourhood plans and maintains good livability for its residents.”
By any measure, the current rate of development greatly exceeds the City’s own projected requirements. The Coalition of Vancouver Neighbourhoods therefore asks the City, why is it pursuing this unsustainably rapid pace of development so aggressively and so unilaterally?

 

Categories: Uncategorized

  • Randy Chatterjee

    Kenji #42: Building development is the city of Vancouver’s number 1 industry, accounting for a lion’s share of local GDP and city finances. Given its importance as the largest contributor to the local economy, overbuilding now and facing a lull later is asking for a brutal boom-bust cycle of job destruction (and not just in development), infrastructure degradation, and civic financial collapse.

    Would any company buy twice, or five times, the products it needed to sell in any given year? Real estate costs huge amounts of money to hold and maintain. The civic infrastructure below and around it also depreciates quickly. It is purely insane to overbuild, as also was the real estate overbuilding that took down the US and almost the world economy in 2008. Five years later, 40% of US homeowners are still under water. Would you want that to happen here?

  • jenables

    There was no justification for cancelling the 98 b line, sorry. Granville and cambie are not the same street no matter what dimension you are living in. They are ten blocks apart for much of the route… that’s too much to ask of your ridership to add another bus ride or walk. Walking is not an option for many seniors or those with disabilities and even for a healthy person it probably adds almost a half hour each way to the commute. Not the way to attract people to transit at all.

  • Ternes

    Richard Wittstock OTM. Particularly at #19.

  • Kenji

    @51

    The city isn’t selling real estate, it’s selling permits. That’s a fine distinction mebbe, but as I see it, the city does not hold the bag if the development doesn’t sell, so the analogy to having excess inventory doesn’t work for me.

    As for the real estate overbuilding in the USA, I don’t know that they overbuilt (have you seen the USA?) as much as they underfinanced. Giving subprimes to people who are barely scraping by was a dumb decision, compounded infinitely by selling derivative instruments of the same barely-scraped mortgages – basically a house of cards in an earthquake zone.

    Again, not comparable to Vancouver giving out too many permits. Unless Vancouver is the underwriter – and sometimes it is, e.g. Olympic Village – then really who cares if Bosa or Aquilini or Beadie or DeCotiis make zillions or lose their shirts by having made too many properties. Them boys, I assume, had their accountants run the numbers pretty well before going to the bank and asking for a quarter-billion dollars.

    Now the point you raise that makes a great deal of sense to me is that the CoV might want to pace itself better to keep the income rolling. I agree with that. You don’t want the City to be fattening on all the low hanging fruit today and then having no cash flow down the road.

    I am gonna guess that some accountant ran those numbers as well but it is still a point that is worth, I think, a half decent answer from CoV.

    My supposition, based on nothing but having played quite a few tower defence videogames, is that there is always more construction that you can do. If you put up a few towers here and there, you can do that in let’s say 10 years, but to get those big roads nicely lined with rowhouses instead of SFH, and the arterials lined with condos, shopping, parking, and transit connections to replace the one-story fire hazard strip malls, well, that’s decades and decades of permit income, yeah?

    And after that, we have to build the glass dome a la the Jetsons, so, in conclusion, I don’t see the construction industry going out of business for lack of something to do.

  • jenables

    Kenji your point doesn’t address the reality of what was once affordable housing being replaced by more expensive housing. We have no shortage of luxury condos here, but once you demolish you can’t build housing that is cheaper than what was there before. Not to mention things built today simply do not have the quality they used to. I fear for those whose mortgages will last longer than their condos.

  • Don D

    Richard, Rico, 6, 9, 10, 11…

    So, are you assuming an average occupancy of 1 person per unit?

    Seems a tad on the low side.

    How do your calculations work out if you assume a modest average of, say, 2?

  • Don D

    Kenji #42

    I’m not sure if you are joking or if that is one of the dumber ideas posted here.

    Build all the housing units that we will need in 30 years or so to save money on inflating build costs, and they will be all nice and ready for people when they come? Really?

    That’s not like “buying your kids’ clothing that were two sizes too large”; thats like buying them Depends for when they grow old and incontinent.

  • Kenji

    @55 I think we should be looking at rent control, coop rental and coop condo options although I am a fan of the postwar walkups that have such nice floors and decent space.

    Old buildings have few virtues in and of themselves; while I am well aware of lousy construction outfits and cheap design, building codes are simply more comprehensive today than an old buildings, many with retrofitted and jury rigged electrical and plumbing.

    If the issue is cost, let’s focus on that, I think.

    @57

    Uh no don I did not advocate building all of vancouver’s future housing in one go. I don’t care really, I just don’t see the argument that we have or shortly will have far too much residential housing in our city. If they get used, then it wasn’t too much. If they don’t get used, then the prices come down.

    I am assuming that the issue is that the city is redeveloping at a breakneck pace. To me the key concern is not too many residences per se, but too few roads, sewers, services and transportation. A tower can go up in three months, which is about how long it takes the city to put in 20 meters of bike lane at the corner of Cambie and Beatty

  • ThinkOutsideABox

    @54,

    “My supposition, based on nothing but having played quite a few tower defence video games…” LMAO

    Well I’m going to suggest that this notion that if we don’t build several towers which always consist predominantly of studio/1-bedroom units, families will move out into the suburbs, is ridiculous. That’s based on nothing but having just eaten a bowl of orange Jell-O and some common sense.

    I’ll believe it when I see more three bedroom housing solutions proposed and built for families, for purchase and rent. There are very little options within Vancouver for extended families or those with two children except to get on a co-op waiting list. Supposedly there is demand for three bedroom units, why aren’t they being built?

  • Voony

    A scoop,

    The mysterious director of the non less mysterious cycling association is… Richard

    http://cyclingbc.net/cycling-bc/about-us/senior-staff/#richard

    I guess the case can be put to rest: thanks Richard !

  • Rico

    Voony, not very helpful, any actual point you are making?

  • Voony

    me @60, sorry, I have posted in the wrong thread…
    please ignore it, and follow conversation in the park board one.

  • Kenji

    @59

    Good point about needing larger spaces for families. Although I remember feeling very guilt ridden one day when some environmental group was promoting small spaces a la Europe.

    As far as that goes, when I was last shopping for real estate years and years ago, there were actually plenty of three bedroom condos – practically no four bedrooms though.

  • ThinkOutsideABox

    Kenji how much is a 3 bedroom condo or duplex in Vancouver? I can find plenty of houses in Vancouver too.

  • boohoo

    @64

    Easy to find that out, not sure why you wouldn’t yourself.

    as of right now, mls.ca search condo/strata with 3+ bedrooms in Vancouver proper yields 296 results ranging from 335k to 35 million!

  • brian

    brilliant #49:

    I purposely said ‘out-of-town,’ not foreign, because there is this type of investment coming from many sources, and regardless of whether the money comes from Shanghai, Abbotsford, or Moscow, the effect is the same. I think the racist/xenophobic part is when people focus solely on Chinese investment.

  • waltyss

    re brilliant not @49. Many of us have a great uncle who drewls, turns off his hearing aide and loudly and constantly says racist or other inappropriate things, particularly at family events when guests are over. You wish you didn’t have to invite him but he is your great uncle and so what can you do. You apologize to your guesta and explain that he is your relative and, while yes his comments are racist and otherwise inappropriate, there is not much to be done. Best to just ignore him.
    Well, brilliant not is the drooling great uncle on this blog.
    The fact of the matter is that people from all over purchase property in this city whether as a pied a terre or as a way to protect money from unstable and greedy regimes in their own country or as an investment . This is true of Albertans, Saskatchewanites, people from every corner of the world including yes, the Chinese.
    By the same token, Vancouverites purchase vacation properties or second homes elsewhere in places like Palm Springs or Greater Phoenix but not just.
    However as earlier threads have shown, out of city and country purchases are not a significant percentage of properties overall, except perhaps in Coal Harbour.
    I would think these do not have a significant impact on housing stock.

  • waltyss

    That should be “drools”.

  • Morven

    We should not be surprised that predicted and actual growth rates are not the same. That said, about the only people who believe that population growth/development plans are realistic are the planners who write them.

    What is required is not that the projections be accurate (it would help) but that the municipal system be agile and flexible enough to cope with unexpected change without adverse social impact. It is indeed arguable whether the planning system is coping.

    It is certainly an open question whether what passes for regional governance in BC, grasped the shifting nature of global service hubs when it drafted it’s growth projections.

    Vancouver has the good/bad fortune to be an element in global service centres. One element of globalisation is human mobility, knowledge intensity and financial flows. Vancouver just happens be one of the more attractive places to live in the global service network, and for that the flow of human and financial capital will continue unabated along these service networks. Some of the financial flow is investment, some is speculation.

    It is at least a plausible scenario that the development pressures will continue at a high level rather than collapse.
    -30-

  • ThinkOutsideABox

    @65,

    Because myself finding out how many/how much wasn’t the point, but thanks anyway Captain Obvious! Nice to see you contribute something! 🙂

  • Kenji

    @64

    There has to be an option between affordable but old housing and grossly expensive but up to Code new housing.

    Can there be up to Code affordable new housing?

    Seems to me I read somewhere that City of Richmond and BC Housing have partnered up and sought proposals from non profits that want to build this kind of thing.

    Who knows, maybe the Bula-ocracy here has some great ideas too. And a few rich-ish friends…

  • boohoo

    @70

    Right…

  • ThinkOutsideABox

    boohoo, running some numbers: Assuming a generous $125K downpayment, 2.4% interest (lowest on a 5 year variable), $68K median household annual income in Vancouver, $400/month condo fee, $125/month property tax (after city homeowner’s grant), Canada Mortgage indicates maximum affordable home price is $447,889.

    MLS reveals 19 units within reach for sale in Vancouver. Once again, thanks!

  • boohoo

    @73

    Ok, what’s your point?

    Not everyone can afford to own in Vancouver, never have, never will. So I’m not sure what you’re trying to show.

  • Kenji

    @73

    Wha? Realtylink tells me there are 18 townhouses and 374 apartments in Van East and 17 townhouses and 486 apartments in Van West for sale at or under $447K.

    Which is still way too much money probably.

  • Richard

    @Morven

    Well said!

  • boohoo

    @75

    The parameter was 3 or more bedrooms. Did you include that? Never heard of realtylink either…?

  • Kenji

    Boohoo and Think, no I didn’t put in any parameters, sorry I skipped over the bed criteria there. Ya there’s only like 8 apartments and 8 TH in Van East and 1 apt in Van West under $447K.

    Pretty scary for young families.

    Realtylink is MLS Vancouver, I think. It’s just the name of the website.

  • gman

    This might help.
    http://www.realtor.ca/map.aspx#acr:false;ac:false;baths:0-0;beds:3-0;fp:false;gar:false;pmin:0;pmax:450000;rmin:0;rmax:0;openh:false;pool:false;stories:0-0;buildingstyle:;buildingtypeid:;viewtypeid:;waterfront:false;forsale:true;forrent:false;orderBy:A;sortBy:1;LisStartDate:;mapZ:12;page:1;mapC:49.25839454283618,%20-123.15862655639648;curView:;curStyle:r;leftMin:false;rightMin:false;chkSchl:false;chkTran:false;chkPol:false;chkMed:false;chkWrk:false;chkFire:false;chkAll:false

  • gman

    Well that didn’t work,sorry.

  • Richard

    @gman

    Try shrinking it with http://tinyurl.com/

  • gman

    Thanks for the heads up Richard,it still works you just have to zoom in yourself. It would take me a week just to enter it into tinyurl.com and Im sure I would screw it up and have to start again…doh.

  • rph

    I did a search on realtor.ca for three bedroom apartments in Vancouver, and came up with figures similar to kenji. Four units under 400k, and 8 more units under 500k.

    So to go back to ThinkOutsideABox #59, it seems very few family size units are on the market, and hardly any affordable new builds.

    No demand? Perhaps for that kind of money most parents prefer to raise their kids in a house with space for bikes, a pet, and sports gear, somewhere else.

  • Silly Season

    An emptying out of the middle…

    “When so many New Yorkers are being priced out of their own city, it’s not merely another problem for us to consider. It’s a crisis of affordability.”

    ‘How to Manhattanize a City’ @NewYorker

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2013/10/how-to-manhattanize-a-city.html?utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=twitter

  • Silly Season

    ‘The idea that 5,000 new market rate units in San Francisco would do anything to make the City affordable to “most people” is pure fantasy. Just look at New York City where tens of thousands of new units were built. At a recent panel discussion, Amanda Burden, director of New York’s Department of Planning, acknowledged that she “had believed that if we kept building in that manner and increasing our housing supply … that prices would go down.” The city “built a tremendous amount of housing” with that hope, “and the price of housing didn’t go down at all.” ‘

    http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=12039#more

  • tedeastside

    all these people will move here, realize there’s no jobs in this dead end, no economy city, then what

  • Roger Kemble

    I tried to introduce the history of criminal banking ted @ #86 . . .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjsN_t8M1N8

    . . . to no avail in Frances’ blog a few conversations ago.

    Michelle thought it was interesting.

    Given that Rothschild banking will prevail until our financial system collapses and Vancouver, “this dead end, no economy city“, as a resource port, with a shelf life of maybe twenty years at most, and consequences, I suggest you keep up this pusillanimous chatter because the ramifications of remedial action are too horrifying to contemplate.

    Most of you gossip with the confidence of street beggars and the authority of the condemned but, puleeeeze, don’t let that deter.

  • rph

    Thanks Silly Season for the interesting links.

    NY decides to try and build it’s way into affordability, and what happens? Price does not go down. When you are a “world class city” (or at least on the radar), and you have no restrictions on RE investment, then you draw from a world market. Local policies of supply and demand, and local economics, no longer work .

  • gman

    So it looks like Vision has a clandestine group of change agents infiltrating community groups,what next?
    http://www.straight.com/news/523676/vision-vancouver-stalwarts-form-neighbourhood-cells

  • boohoo

    @89

    Well it’s obvious isn’t it? It’s only a matter of time before they take away all private property and assign us to organic vision conditioning workcamps. Duh.

  • gman

    @90
    Well we are a member of ICLEI which is Agenda 21,and if you read it they do say private property ownership is unsustainable. Maybe that’s why they keep building smaller and smaller concrete boxes for us to exist in.

  • ThinkOutsideABox

    The stories at the links Silly Season provided read so familiar to what has been discussed about Vancouver.

    Given the lack of family sized dwellings available on the market or being built in predominantly 1-bedroom unit new condo buildings, I hope that silly argument/development PR line gets put to rest that says if we don’t build these, it’ll result in sprawl in the suburbs. There is no lack of 1-bedroom units for sale and while house prices have soared, the condo market is detached from that activity where prices are reflecting 2008 levels.

    Also Frances, it has been consistently routine that staff reports have gone before council for consideration only days after release to the public, sometimes in the hundreds of pages. That’s not wonky, it’s a legitimate concern given that there are sometimes vagaries in these reports, i.e. the current community plans.

    Subsequently after hearing the complaint from a member of a community group, council moved in March of last year to “make all reports coming to Council regarding these three community plans available to respective communities for at least two weeks prior to the Council meeting at which the report is to be heard.” Unfortunately that wasn’t even met with Policy Report dated September 13, 2013, entitled “Community Plans: Next Steps” coming before council on September 25, which council pushed ahead with anyway. It should be no wonder then why people are cynical, this being just one example.

    It would be good to see that level of scrutiny turned at government with the same zeal that you’ve shown for the issue of city staff inaccessibility to columnists and reporters rather than turning the guns on ordinary Vancouver residents who just want to see fairness and a responsive democracy.

  • brilliant

    @Waltsyss 67 – then you must be the venomous spinster auntie, always ready with a nasty piece of bile to share, in between healthy bouts of the sherry.

    And of course you’re right, it’s Bill & Marge from Moosejaw snapping up all those Dunbar lots, LOL.

  • gman

    brilliant#93
    And all the born and raised Vancouverites are forced to move to Moosejaw.

  • gman

    boohoo#90
    Just a little followup from a meeting held in Vancouver way back in 76.

    D. United Nations Conference on Human Settlements (Habitat I) (1976)

    The Habitat I agreement was ostensibly about human living space, but really sought to control ownership of land. Here is an excerpt:

    ” Land is an essential element in development of both urban and rural settlements. The use and tenure of land should be subject to public control…Land…cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth and therefore contributes to social injustice; if unchecked, it may become a major obstacle in the planning and implementation of development schemes. The provision of decent dwellings and healthy conditions for the people can only be achieved if land is used in the interests of society as a whole. Public control of land use is therefore indispensable….”

    Nothing to see here folks….move along.

    http://www.unhabitat.org/downloads/docs/924_21239_The_Vancouver_Declaration.pdf

  • MB

    @ gman 96

    And the most expensive and financially inaccessible land in Vancouver belongs to the state, right?

  • MB

    A number of commentors referred to a lack of housing availability and affordability in Vancouver for families, citing a lack of three-bedroom condos on the market, and high prices for what is offered.

    Can anyone supply local demographic evidence that “large-unit” family housing is as in-demand as implied when the birthrate has been plunging since 1958 and has been lower than the parent replacement rate since the early 70s, single seniors are increasing rapidly in numbers, and the immigration rate has remained at about 8 per 1,000 population for over 20 years nationally?

    Are there more children than adults immigrating to Vancouver, or are large immigrant families displacing residents without children?

    It seems to me that the condo-size trends may dovetail fairly well with demographics. And the kids do grow up on occasion, and may even move out before they’re 35.

    Bringing down the high land values in Vancouver … that is another story, and it may be titled Ain’t Gonna Happen Without a Great Earthquake.

  • gman

    MB#96
    Well I guess if your talking about all the leasehold buildings in the West End or False Creek you might say that.Or if you look at several National Parks and a vast majority of our boreal forest that’s been put under the control of UNEP and will never be developed or lived on you might want to ask a few questions. But not to worry MB they’re in no big hurry,more like a slow march.

  • Richard Wittstock

    MB #97

    This is a great question. As a data-driven homebuilder, I can attest that there is very little useful demographic data that one could rely on in this regard. Census data doesn’t show young families flocking to the city. I believe that this is because there is no suitable, affordable housing for them here.

    Nor is there overwhelming market evidence of strong demand for three-bedroom APARTMENT units; in a typical apartment building these are usually the slowest to sell and at the lowest prices per sq.ft., suggestive of low demand.

    However, as someone who is in the young family demographic, I do believe that this doesn’t tell the whole story. I believe that demand for three-bedroom APARTMENT units is relatively low. However I believe that good-quality GROUND-ORIENTED three-bedroom product (ie townhouses and row houses) experiences demand that exceeds supply of this product type. We have very little of this product in the Vancouver marketplace, and, per my comment above in #31, I think that this is the only way that families are going to afford to live in the city.

    If we think that it is desirable to have young (professional) families living close to the core thing, then we have to make it possible for them to do so. Since single-family homes are out of reach for most young families, we need to provide a product type that families would find suitable, and an acceptable alternative to the suburban white-picket-fence. That’s where a well-designed 1500-1800 sq.ft. row house (or, more commonly here, a 1300-1500 sq.ft. strata townhouse over underground parking — an inferior alternative) comes in.

  • Randy Chatterjee

    MB #96: CoV owns most or all of South False Creek, which is of course leased out to all who live there. Another $14+billion of real estate is in the City’s hands, both valuable and not so much. This doesn’t include park land and in fact most of this land would be the cheapest in the city if sold.