Bill 244

You continue to ignore the fact that there is nothing that Canada can do to meaningfully affect CO2 emissions. Whether or not AGW is real is irrelevant to what Canada should be doing. It is the actions of the international community that should guide our actions

Canadians are No. 2 or 3 in per capita emissions in the world. We are not blameless. Further, the embedded emissions in all our fossil fuel exports is phenomenal, but never cited by the carbon interests.

The actions of the international community have been hopelessly diluted, lobbied to death by vested interestrs, and pathetic. I would hope that some form of leadership would have risen by now that starts to promote an incremental, intelligent transition to cleaner fuels. This isn’t going to come from Canada given our dearth of leadership so far on this file.

Mb- other than the vast number of people who don’t want to go downtown because it has been made expensive and inconvenient (in your face, merchants!) didn’t we figure that was due to the massive influx of people who have moved downtown in the last ten years?

2001 Chrysler Cierra: $500; to put it into good roadworthy shape, $1,700, gas, per year, say $1,800, repairs per year, say $350, insurance per year, $980. Life expectancy, say 10 more years.

$3,500 per year/ $10 per day.

Compares VERY favorably with public transit.

Average cost of owning a car? Of course not.

What one has to do to get by? You bet.

@244

Bill, your ‘why should we do anything if others aren’t’ attitude is digusting.

What happened to being a leader, being the example others look to rather than waiting for others to make the big boy decisions and then play catch up?

No you miss the point. Your stupid little ‘socialist’ digs do nothing but illuminate your ignorance.

It’s not like Vancouver is the only city adding bike lanes or taking whatever measure to reduce the reliance on single occupancy vehicles and/or ghg’s. Pick basically any city in the developed world and they are doing the same thing. You piss and moan as though this is some obscure fantasy of Gregor’s when it is common place worldwide.

And talk to New Zealand or Denmark about ‘insignificant nations’ stepping up and being the first nation to declare something legal or take a stand on something before the ‘bigger powers’ did it. Not because it was easy but because it was right.

If, as Bill’s proposition was that we acknowledge ghg emissions to be

@MB #251

“Canadians are No. 2 or 3 in per capita emissions in the world.”

You are either denser than boohoo or just intending to mislead. Per capita emissions are of course irrelevant to total emissions by country (which, by the way, Canada is more like #14 on the list) which is what is important. If the biggest emitter, China, chooses to do nothing then it is irrelevant what we do.

Simple question. Should we add costs to our economy by reducing our emissions even though the major emitters choose to do nothing?

I’m sad to see this has degenerated into a debate about whether climate change is anthropogenic – a debate that simply doesn’t take place in scientific journals, as there are no peer-reviewed studies of actual climate change that point to any conclusion other than anthropogenic climate change, as far as I’m aware. I’m also sad to see this myth of climate change having stopped once again resurfacing, from posters such as Bill.

For Bill #187 in particular, you can message statistics a lot of different ways. I would recommend looking at this post from Price Tags: http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2013/07/16/the-denialist-mantra-16-years-prove-global-warming-stopped/

Global warming hasn’t stopped.

I’d also like to ask someone this: if climate change isn’t being caused by changes in the greenhouse effect caused by humans, then what exactly is causing it? The sun? Nope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-cycle-data.png

So what? There’s nothing else to point to. No scapegoats that can explain away all the increase in temperatures.

And finally, China is doing something, as evidenced by the recent agreement with the Obama administration in the United States. It’s hardly enough, but it’s more than Canada: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23876-china-and-the-us-agree-a-deal-on-slowing-emissions.html#.UgaVtJIwfbQ

As a major emitter with a whole lot of oil and gas resources, Canada can and should do a lot of things to affect emissions. But that’s just the start: Canada is also a major consumer, and that is just as important. Countries such as Germany are already reducing their emissions through the use of solar and wind energy in particular, as well as sound alternatives to driving (though they so far have refused to give in to speed limits on the Autobahn), and regardless of what other people are doing, you can’t absolve your guilt by saying others are just as guilty. That certainly wouldn’t fool the police if you committed a crime, and it won’t fool the environment either.

I hope I’m not contributing to the discussion by posting this here, but either way I felt I had to add a few things.

gman, why do you exaggerate so stupidly? You’re clearly smarter than that.

@boohoo 259-Ever get the feeling you’re not in Denmark anymore Toto? Trying to equate some fly speck.sized eurocountry with Canada is ridiculous.

Maybe your parents sold their westside house and left you a pot of money so you don’t have to worry about tax increases. Mine didn’t so I don’t enjoy paying for Vision’s latest greenwashing initiative especially when it is ultimately pointless.

brilliant,

Clearly you missed my point. I’d bother explaining but I bet you already know and are just playing dumb so you can just dismiss my point altogether.

I have never lived west of granville aside from one year when I was in an approx 500 sq ft apt off Vine and Broadway, earning about 7/hr. Sorry to disappoint.

I worked, earned and saved to get what I have, so how about you shelve your bs.

@boohoo 268

“I bet you already know and are just playing dumb”

Well, at least this is something you will never be accused of. Equating China’s policy on punishment with its policy on climate change and how they should influence our policies pretty much confirms you are not going to get the point. As for a “slap in the face to our children”, I think the youth of Europe are more likely to ask why their governments have wasted so much on costly green energy making their industry less competitive and contributing to their high levels of unemployment.

Boohoo#268

West of Granville?

Got news for you: the East Side doesn’t start at Granville… well, I guess for some of us it might.

gman,

we’ve gone over this. I do my part, as best I can within the system we have. no, I’m not selling everything and moving to the tundra to live off the land nor am I going to kill myself which would be the most environmentally friendly thing to do.

It’s always the extremes with you guys. I’m not suggesting Canada should cease oil production our anything like that. Just that it is unconscionable to know we are a major contributor to something bad and to do nothing because someone else isn’t is pathetic.

I sold a car, will be taking transit etc… I’m doing my part regardless whether you, or some rich lottery winner does his. Why would what some rich guy does have any impact on what I know to be the right course of action? Same thing for Canada.

Boohoo, I’m not critiquing your life. Don’t know much about it and haven’t said a word against it

I’m certainly not opposed to working hard, living well, traveling, and so on.

And I most certainly don’t think that you should kill yourself in the name of environmentalism.

I’m not denying AGW either, although I do think that we should question the premise of it and be far more concerned about pollution. (Remember when we used to worry about pollution?)

I’m just saying that east of Granville aint the East Side, and that perhaps your understanding of peoples’ circumstances and the options they face might be a bit narrow.

For example, just as many of us can afford a car and therefore don’t have to take transit (and in my opinion, there’s no shame in that), many of us can’t afford transit and have to drive a beater instead (and in my opinion, there’s no shame in that).

If you don’t want people to take pot shots at you, don’t set yourself up.

Cheers.

And Don maybe if you stick to addressing my point that you clearly understood rather than just taking pot shots we’d be getting somewhere.

@Tessa 277-Oh please, I don’t think we need someone from the Bike Lobby lecturing about “attacking peoples personal choices”. Isn’t that their stock in trade? Or is that just reserved for folks whose personal choice is a home in the suburbs and a car?

Don, go reread what was said. My original comment was in direct response to what someone else said that you are choosing to ignore instead taking my comment without context.

Also, I never said west of Granville was the east side. This is something you’ve fabricated, for what purpose I have no idea.

Another rant ….

Why is it that all the ‘towers’ being built in Vancouver are co0kie cutter, ugly glass, boxy…while outside of Vancouver and in other cities, towers that are actually visually ‘nice’ are built?

Can the ‘local’ architechts not offer anything better than what we see being resurected throughout the city?

Maybe we should organize a Golden Mile midnight cycling club.The only requirement would be at least 4 bear bells on every bike…….YaaaaHoooo!!!

teririch,did you happen to see this floating around the neighborhood?
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/more-pavilions-78.html

Frances – please kill this thread once and for all!

Relative to the topic, here’s a blog post about how the city, which goes to great lengths to create optics about cycling, drops the ball when it comes to supporting cycling infrastructure. Troubling to read about, and my guess is this post was written by a cyclist:

Bad Design Blog: It is Always the Cover Up That is The Problem

http://thehouseoftripper.com/bdb/COV10082013.html

teririch, this may escape you but there is a huge qualitative difference between noticing race which we all do, regardless of our race, and the racist rants on the blog cited by your buddy gman which in bad grammar and spelling feel the downfall of this country is letting in Asian immigrants. Sort of Canada’s version of the odious teaparty.

@teririch
I remember a few years ago when the tower boom started and there was a big hubbub because they were marketing overseas before marketing here.I think they actually made a new rule so we could have the same opportunity as others.
Your friend sounds like she has a sense of humor just like my family.I stick out like a sore thumb at weddings and Christmas…lol.

teririch: From what in my posts did you conclude that I was of the view that the Chinese or Japanese do not have their share of racists. They do. The Japanese being a fairly homogenous nation are particularly racist as they have amply demonstrated in their treatment of even Japanese born Koreans.
But so what. Because other nationalities have their racists (think Japan as mentionned but also Italy), does that excuse our home grown variety. Like many of the idiots on the blog promoted by your buddy gman.
Oh by the way, after your posts on sidewalks, as I was in the neighbourhood and driving, I drove down West 3rd from Arbutus to Burrard and saw absolutely nothing wrong with the sidwalks except maybe the odd upheaval from tree roots. I am starting to believe you suffer from hallucinations.