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The sign wars: An informal survey shows 114 VV/COPE; 90 NPA; 10 Other

November 12th, 2011 · 26 Comments

Bogus alert: This is a pretty unscientific assessment of the signs, but it’s one rigorous step up from just by impressions or guesses. And it gave me something to do besides clean my house on Saturday.

I thought about doing this a couple of weeks ago because I’ve been noticing a lot of NPA signs on the east side, along Broadway and 12th from Main to Boundary, in the northeast corner around Nanaimo (especially for Joe Carangi), and along 49th Main to Fraser. Also, it looked to me as though Cambie, where I drive frequently, was going about 2/3 to 4/5 NPA.

These weren’t itemized counts but just something that was hitting me as I was driving along usual routes through the city.

So, in true poli nerd fashion, I decided to spend an hour of my day today doing an actual count that I thought would be somewhat more representative of the whole city. I was coming back from North Van, so mapped out a giant rectangle of the city.

Political junkies know that voting in Vancouver tends to split, not east-west, as everyone assumes, but more along 16th/Kingsway. North of there is more lefty land (Vision/COPE), except for one pocket in the downtown in Yaletown. South of that line tends to go more NPA, except for some pockets around the Punjabi Village and Marpole.

Epicentres of the Left: Commercial Drive, Mount Pleasant, West End. Epicentres of the Right: Shaughnessy, Kerrisdale, Dunbar.

Signs are a not-bad thing to count, as people who take signs are usually committed voters.

So this is the route I chose: Rupert from First to 63rd, which I thought would be split about evenly, since Kingsway crosses at 38th. Then across the city east-west on 54th, 57th and, after Ontario, 49th and then Southwest Marine. Down Dunbar from Marine to 10th. Across the city west-east on 10th and then 12th, along 16th Burrard to Main, where it’s more residential and had more chance of lawn signs and then back out along 12th from Main to my starting point on Rupert.

There are all kinds of problems with this, obviously. Doesn’t take in VV strongholds in West End, Kits, Marpole, Punjabi Village. (In fact, I chose 54th to avoid Punjabi Village as I thought that would skew the results too much.) May have missed southwest streets that are more sign-happy than 49th, SW Marine and Dunbar. (I thought they would have lots but they didn’t.)

Here’s what I found:

The place where Vision/COPE was the most dominant was along Rupert, especially from 1st to 45th. In fact, it was a veritable sign festival along that street, with a total of 55 signs for Vision, 11 for COPE and 3 yards with both. The NPA’s candidates had only 21 signs and 10 of those were in the 45th-62nd stretch. (By the way, would really love to talk to the homeowner at Rupert and 3rd? or so who has both a Gregor and a Suzanne sign on the lawn.)

The area where the NPA was strongest was, predictably, 49th west of Ontario all the way out to Dunbar and then down Dunbar.

Randy Helten and the Neighbourhoods for a Sustainable Vancouver had three signs in that same area. Sandy Garossino had one on 16th near Granville. And someone named Michael Darni had a cluster in Fraserview.

The actual counts on the four sides of the rectangle:

Rupert: 55 Vision; 11 COPE; 3 Vision and COPE together; 21 NPA

54/57/49/SW Marine: 39 NPA; 23 Vision; 3 COPE; 2 NSV; 5 Dharni

Dunbar: 12 NPA; 4 Vision; 3; COPE; 1 NSV

10th/12th/16th/12th/Grandview: 32 Vision; 4 COPE; 7 Vision and COPE together; 18 NPA

Other fun facts

– Apparently anyone building a house is pro-NPA. I spotted several signs on houses under construction. Only Vision sign on a building project was the Vancity-financed multi-unit something at Grandview and Nanaimo.

– Community gardens, or at least the one at Oak and 16th, really REALLY love Gregor Robertson. Looked like a sign for every plot there.

– My rules were: Each lot got counted as one sign, even if the person had multiple signs plastered all over the place, unless they had a sign each from an opposing party. (Therefore,the guy at Rupert and 3rd who had one Vision and one NPA sign resulted in a tick mark in each column.)

I didn’t count which candidates’ signs were the most prominent for each party. I was marking this down as I was driving, folks!

Please feel free to post your own results for various streets that you think are representative!!

 

 

 

Categories: Uncategorized

  • Julia

    Love it. You tabulation is as good as any poll out there.

  • boohoo

    I wonder if people don’t screw with signs as easily as we’ve talked about with surveys. I’d put anyone’s sign on my lawn if someone paid me and if they were that desperate. It wouldn’t mean squat about who i might vote for.

    Then there is my father in law who goes out and removes all signs, political or not that he sees on public property. See a big gap in any signs? He’s probably been around!

  • Frances Bula

    @boohoo. In all my days of listening to rumours about low-down political shenanigans, I’ve never heard of any party paying someone to have their sign up. Paid “volunteers,” weird flyers, negative ads, yes. But paying people to have a sign on their lawn? Hmm.

    BTW, I didn’t see any signs on public property, except for, maybe, the community gardens if you want to think of them that way.

  • Westender1

    I thought that Vision Vancouver and COPE were separate parties? Should they not each have their own “tally”?
    (A bit of an aside, but as a high density neighbourhood most of us in the West End don’t have lawns, so I suspect displaying signage is not as common as in other lower density areas of the city).

  • Everyman

    @ Westender1 4
    “I thought that Vision Vancouver and COPE were separate parties? Should they not each have their own “tally”?”

    You were being toungue and cheek with that comment, right?

  • Joseph Jones

    Frances Bula 3 –

    More election signs than not occupy public property.

    You appear not to realize that many residential property lines lie 2-3 feet back from the inside edge of the sidewalk.

    A sidewalk typically runs down the middle of the public boulevard.

    PS – A request to 311 will result in removal of non-compliant signs. By-law enforcement here requires complaint.

  • Tessa

    @Everyman – if you look at their votes, they are definately two different parties, even if they have an electoral agreement come vote time.

  • Gölök Z Buday

    I know I have one pointed in back apartment of my Pandora in Hastings/Sunrise and see one strip apartment building with 3 Vision signs, representing the owner I am thinking, or it would be in a window.

    Cheers

    Gölök

  • Gölök Z Buday

    Those vision signs may break what you mention Joseph Jones (on Pandora/Templeton) at least 2/3s.

    I kept my stuff on cafepress to make sure it was only printed if used. Up in Langara (near the station). Lots of Signs. Could have been wasted if I has them pre-printed, same with buttons. Two independents I saw when up there. Michael Dharni said he’s handed out all 300 of his.

  • brilliant

    @Tessa 7 COPE is Visions chief enabler. If they really cared about neighbourhoods they would have put up a mayoral candidate. Hopefully their supporters have enough brains to vote for Helten instead if the pretty Juiceman.

  • boohoo

    @#3

    I’m not saying they have, I’ve never been approached. Just that my interest in supporting party x or y’s signage is basically worthless.

    And by public property I mean boulevards, medians, that kind of thing.

  • Frances Bula

    No, I didn’t realize that the line is 2-3 feet back and I think it’s nit-picking. Do you really think it makes a difference to people’s view of politics if the sign is close to the sidewalk or further back?

  • Frances Bula

    @Westender. For sure, it is harder to guess at public political affiliations in apartment areas. I saw some big signs up around apartments (a giant Melissa De Genova one somewhere on Broadway near Clark), but I have to assume that was put up by the apartment owner and was not a collective decision of all of the renters in the building. Apartment renters and owners do have the right to put signs in their windows, but not many seem to take advantage of that.

  • Andrea C.

    My block in Strathcona is about as strange as it gets.
    To one side, the not-so-gentle homesteaders had erected a huge plywood edifice for the NPA. I say “had” because it was gone after Hallowe’en, presumably after having sufficiently scared the neighbourhood. They had a giant NPA sign up last time around, too.
    To the other side, the gentle homesteaders, who plumped for COPE signs last time, have opted for a small Vision lawn sign. Is Robertson that much of an underdog in this election?
    No NSV signs that I’ve seen, but it might be worth checking at 1034 East Pender St., the heritage triplex just purchased for a cool $948,000 pricetag. It’s a property investment made by 27-year-old NSV hopeful, and westside dweller, Nicole Benson. Those Spanish lessons must be a licence to print money, with what the mortgage on a million-dollar property must work out to. Ole! One question to Ms. Benson and NSV: how is buying a million dollar heritage home in Strathcona contributing
    to “Neighbourhoods for a Sustainable Vancouver”? And it’s “E. Pender Street”, not “E. Pender Avenue”, for pity’s sake. http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/elections/2011election/profiles/documents/CBensonNicole.pdf

  • ThinkOutsideABox

    @ Frances 13,

    Apartment renters and owners do have the right to put signs in their windows, but not many seem to take advantage of that.

    Really? There are stratas with by-laws prohibiting signage in windows as well as common property – they can certainly dictate the shade of what you use to cover your windows.

  • Tessa

    @Brilliant: I think the COPE membership knows that running a mayor’s candidate would make the party the NPA’s enabler instead, which is hardly in their membership’s interest. It’s not an ideal situation, for sure, but unless and until some more equitable voting system is developed then that strategic thinking will always happen in politics of all levels to some extent.

  • RossK

    Sometimes two different signs on the same property can tell a most interesting story…

    Especially if they are stuck in the ground along former trench lines that are now known as a ‘corridor’.

    .

  • Joseph Jones

    Frances Bula 12 –

    If it did not make a lot of difference to election sign visibility, people might respect public property more.

    I think complainers about by-law infractions at the Art Gallery are nit-pickers.

    Pick away at your favorite nit.

  • Nicole Benson

    @AndreaC: The Pender property is a family investment with several individuals (and my name is included on the title and mortgage). The three units are currently rented out and house a total of 8 people.

  • Andrea C.

    Thank you, Ms. Benson, to you and your family for helping keeping the Vancouver property bubble alive and well.
    You and your family purchased a million dollar rental property at 1034 E. Pender St. (marginal location even for the DTES). NOT SUSTAINABLE.
    2200 sq. ft. (including common areas) divided by 8 people = approx. 275 sq. ft. per person.
    NOT SUSTAINABLE.
    Thank you for bleeding my neighbourhood of 20+ years dry to the very last drop for its “investment potential”.

  • Nicole Benson

    @AndreaC: Maintaining the house is far more sustainable than if someone was to tear it down and build something new. Housing 8 people is also more sustainable than if it was owned by an individual or single family.

  • Andrew

    Not sure why Nicole Benson is being beat up on for owning a home…? Pretty common for family members to buy a home together with many people on title. Heck I’ve discussed this with friends.

  • david hadaway

    Well, having just walked by the house in question I think there are perhaps two sides to this. It’s clearly fairly well maintained and while, to my mind, eight would be a squeeze it’s not overcrowding.

    Given the uncertain returns of other investments it’s easy to understand why people are attracted to real estate, which may not give a great yield at current prices but at least offers some hope of capital growth, especially if you don’t have a tax funded pension lined up and aren’t part of the 1%.

    However those doing this should not ignore the fact that their actions have consequences. There seems to be a dearth of information here but in the UK the effects of ‘buy to let’ are well known. Seen as a way of increasing rental stock without returning to the ideologically forbidden days of local government building rental housing, this was given active encouragement through favourable tax treatment, which also exists here. It was also a very nice subsidy to the already well off from society as a whole and a profitable new market for the banks. It has been suggested that as many as one in three house purchases in London in recent years have been of this type.

    The consequences were and are to inflate property prices, to destabilize the market, to increase private debt (also degrading the quality of bank assets) and, last but not least, to increase rents, decrease security of tenure and permanently exclude a lot of families from any hope of owning a home.

    I’m sure many will disagree with this uncomfortable analysis. It isn’t a crime – but if it were it wouldn’t be victimless

  • Andrea C.

    David:

    Beautifully said and very much to the point.

  • Gölök Z Buday

    Yeah common for old money to buy a property together. But on one hand, a rental property to rent out is a better property to buy then to live in; especially if outright. If mortgaged it’s a loss. seems high for a 3 renter. Trying to be fair, could be a cult buy. I am not sure why Nicole hates new buildings. Also when you claim speculation is a problem why buy a house as an investment, that is speculation.

    – GZB

  • Peter T

    This is interesting but the same people I see on street corners in the morning and night with their signs waving at people also have the most signs up
    ie Ken Charko, Bill Yuen and Joe Carangi?

    And they sent out their own flyer. What the heck is everyone else doing. Where is the fire to win and work hard for every vote?