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Rize tower public hearing: Chapter 1 reveals developer originally pitched a tower of 340 feet

February 28th, 2012 · 33 Comments

A quick resume of last night’s festivities at the first stage of the public hearing for the Rize project at Kingsway and Broadway, which includes five buildings altogether, one of them a 19-storey tower.

This is a hearing that many think historic for a lot of reasons. This hearing will set the stage for how development will unroll in other Vancouver communities that feel they have a historic or unique character they’re trying to preserve and who expect developments, which they’re not completely opposed to, to integrate into that fabric in a way that complements the existing buildings.

The hearing didn’t really get underway until 9:30, since two hours were occupied with debate over a new tennis bubble at Jericho. As a result, the audience heard almost exclusively from city planners and the developer and his representatives, with only one of the scheduled 181 speakers heard from.

It’s starting tonight again at 6 p.m.

It’s clear there are strong feelings running. The clerk noted that the city got a petition with 635 names supporting the project and another two petitions, with 2,116 and366 names respectively, against it. Letters seemed to be evenly split. Public forums have indicated more opposition than support, ranging from60 per cent opposition to about 80. Surveys of the neighbourhood has indicated opinions are more evenly split.

The crowd got some new information from the city’s urban-design expert, Scot Hein, about the history of the project. A lot of people were aghast when the project originally emerged in the public consciousness as a 26-storey tower two years ago. But Hein said the developer originally came in pitching a tower that was 340 feet tall and 7.5 FSR.

(Note to newbies: FSR stands for floor-space ratio and it’s used to determine how much space can be built on a site. Most single-family houses are allowed .7 FSR outright, which means they have as manysquare feet in the building as is equivalent to 70 per cent of the lot’s area. A house on a lot that is 33 x 120 gets to be 2,700 square feet in however many stories allowed, which is 70 per cent of the lot’s area of 3,960 square feet. A building of 7 FSR on a lot that is 20,000 square feet gets to have 140,000 square feet.)

“We were dismissive of that,much too aggressive and ambitious,” said Hein, as he showed visualizations charting how that building would compare to other buildings in the area at that height and then the lower ones that the developer pitched successively: 279 feet, 246, and its current 215, with an FSR of 5.5

While Hein likely meant that to show how much the city had pushed back against the developer’s original proposal, I have a feeling that what this likely demonstrated to many of the opponents in the crowd was that the developer came in looking to get as much as he could possibly get away with, with no ear at all for the community discussion that was going on at the time where people kept saying over and over they wanted something that fit in with the character of the neighbourhood.

Even though the project has been scaled down, I know there are many who feel that it all started wrong. Instead of the developer really listening to what the neighbourhood was saying before doing anything, they believe, developer William Lin came in with an idea of what he wanted first and has scaled it down grudgingly to try to lower the community pushback.

There were some interesting arguments made by architect Mark Ostry, who talked about how the form of the project is designed to reflect the building character of two very different streets in Mount Pleasant.

The two sides of the project that face Broadway and Watson (the little alley that has a street name and is a legacy of Mount Pleasant’s old small streets with working-classhouses) are lower, with a height that echoes Mount Pleasant’s defining building almost kitty-corner, the Lee Building.

The 19-storey tower, on the other hand, is parked on top of the podium at the 10th and Kingsway corner, part of a line of modern condo buildings that have gone up along Kingsway in the last few years.

What was less convincing was the pitch from Lin and Ostry that this will help the city achieve green objectives, by putting density at the intersection of major transit routes and the plea that Metro Vancouver needs to find some place to house 40,000 new residents a year.  I know from lots of experience that people are not going to accept what they think is bad and inconsiderate design just to allegedly save the planet.

What was even less convincing and extremely boring and irrelevant was the squabbling that is going on over the way the building has been computer-rendered by the architects, the city, and Rize opponent Stephen Bohus. Architect Russell Acton used up 10 precious minutes of my life on this earth talking about how Bohus’s revised renderings of the building (that show it as much larger and as ominous as a freighter) are skewed because of their used of multiple vanishing points in the perspectival approach, margins of error, and more. Bohus then used up another 10 minutes accusingly noting that the clouds don’t match in the renderings by the architect and the city, along with other similar earth-shattering details.

A shame this is what kicked things off, as I think the renderings are irrelevant. As anyone who’s gone beyond Grade 5 art class knows, you can make buildings or people look bigger or smaller depending on whether you look up or down at them and various other tricks. The people who support this building don’t support it because they’ve been hypnotized by a rendering. And those who oppose it also don’t need a rendering to convince them that the project is more density than they’re prepared to swallow.

Here’s hoping everyone moves on to more relevant arguments tonight.

For myself, I’m hoping to learn what it is the community actually agrees that it wants in the area. I talked to two people last night after the meeting ended at 11:30. I couldn’t get an answer I could understand from either one of them about what the community did agree to. I’m sure they thought I was exceptionally stupid (one just walked off in exasperation) but I really can’t understand at this point what they think they agreed to.

Do they think they said buildings can only be built to the existing zoning? (30 feet, under certain conditions) Did they agree that some of the already built-up parts and the arterials could take higher densities than that? Did they agree, as planners keep saying they did, that three sites could POTENTIALLY be considered for greater height and density if there were sufficient benefits to the community? (Some seem to tell me yes; some seem to tell me no, not really.)

This is going to be a difficult hearing for everyone involved, because you can see some rights and wrongs on both sides. But both sides are also engaging in some off-putting hyperbole to sell their cases.

Here’s hoping there’s more rational discussion tonight. And perhaps the audience could learn some manners. I’m sure residents of this city would be shocked if city planners booed them or laughed out loud at anything they tried to present as fact or carried on as though they are evil manipulators bent on ruining the city. So why they think it’s okay to boo, heckle, and jeer city planners — decent people who are trying their best in a difficult job — is beyond me.

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  • Tiktaalik

    @Frances: On the topic of the mixed responses you were hearing regarding the three larger sites: from my memory of the community meetings I think the response at the planning meetings was equally mixed and nothing was really decided.

    I think the planners are stretching the truth on the “larger” sites issue a fair bit. The planners were the ones that were bringing up the subject and introducing the drawings of the towers and they wanted the community to be positive about it, but I think they didn’t really get any sort of definitive response on the size question, but just ran with the most optimistic interpretation of the community’s vague, “maybe I dunno” answer.

    Upon first reading the final community plan document I recall seeing the vague “larger buildings on certain sites” note and knowing that we’d be eventually be heading to the conflict that we find ourselves in now.

    I’m sure many people would say that they agreed with the idea of larger, but just not 19 stories larger. After all one doesn’t have to be very tall to be taller than the Lee building. I vaguely recall a 150ft number written on a brainstorming sheet but I don’t trust my memory enough at all to say whether that was discussed or agreed on by any group at the meetings.

  • Frances Bula

    @Tiktaalik. Yeah, it sounds to me like critical issues that were likely to lead to flame-outs were never seriously wrassled with. As a result, everyone went around with their own little mind movie about what “larger sites” meant.

  • Joe Just Joe

    I agree that 150ft could be made to work, it would fit into 14-16 stories of normal height floors and would be able to blend easier into the surroundings.
    The treatment to Watson is almost criminal and I’m surprised it hasn’t gathered more attention. I think it’s fair to say most local residents would be willing to sacrifice some of that CAC money for something that meets the spirit of the MP Plan instead of this liberal interpretation.
    Listening to the complaints I feel even more convinced that the developer could’ve made a proposal that would be acceptable to the community while still landing lots of density.

  • Tiktaalik

    I’m curious is there a place to find out about the FSR of existing buildings in Vancouver? I’m curious about the FSR of other buildings around Mount Pleasant. District, 3333, Jacobsen for example. I tried to find an archive of Vancouver Rezapps but I couldn’t find anything.

  • False Creep

    A brief note on civility – I had a very civil disagreement with a woman at one of the car free days on Main. We both like our neighbourhood and had different ideas about why it works. I support, she opposes, but the common ground was significant. Frankly, most people don’t notice or care about planning, so those of us who do should be nice to each other. Even if they’re stupid and evil.

  • Joe Just Joe

    I’ll see what I can dig up.

  • Frances Bula

    @Tiktaalik. There are usually references to FSR in old urban-design panel minutes, but they only go back about 10 years.

  • voony

    Frances, you write, “I think the renderings are irrelevant”
    I respectfully disagree…it is not an easy matter to mentally represent what can means the size/mass of a proposed building, and rendering help the process…that is what they are supposed to be for. Very certainly the public judges a project on it more that anything else…(Even in architecture competition, like the recent viaduct ones, not only public but the jury choose the nice looking project, disregarding how relevant it is or not…). So very certainly, the discussion about rendering is meaningful especially when those ones are aimed at deceiving the public. It is not only the ones of the developer side who has deceiving (Stephen Bohus rendering are also obviously largely distorted), but since the ones of the developer side end up in the city’s official document: it is important to make sure they are as accurate as possible…

  • brilliant

    Why am I not surprised Lin and Ostry would try to cater to Gregor’s greenwashing tendencies. Anybody who believes this is about saving the planet as opposed to good ol’ developer greed is a fool.

  • Joe Just Joe

    Here are a few over the recent years…

    298 East 11th Avenue (2725 Sophia) 8 stories, 3.0FSR.

    350 Kingsway 13 stories (126ft), 3.0 FSR

    96 East Broadway 3 stories, 3.0 FSR

    2758 Prince Edward 9 stories, 3.00FSR

    2321 Scotia Street (The Elyse) 9 stories, 3.01FSR.

    133 EAST 8TH AVENUE 6 Stories, 3.0FSR

    301 Kingsway 11 Stories, 3.0FSR

    1 Kingsway, 9 stories, 2.96FSR

    2520 MANITOBA STREET 5 Stories, 2.74FSR

    Could not find Jacobsen, but looking at the comparibles it’s safe to say it’ll be ~3FSR

  • Tiktaalik

    whoa thanks!

  • Glissando Remmy

    Thought of The Night

    “Maybe is a case of perspective. If you didn’t know, Renderings in the Rear View Mirror are Uglier, Taller and Closer than they appear.”

    I think ‘voony’ #8 has hit the nail on the head.
    Renderings are important, bird eye views are good to have but are unnatural and deceiving and inconsequential, view angles and POV’s are important …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryo1rHrBZlQ

    We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

  • Joe Just Joe

    3333 Main 5 stories 2.5FSR.

    Think I’m done though, you can buy me a beer at the next secret monthly Frances Bula beerfest.

  • Robert W. White

    Frances, I so appreciate hearing your voice. You somehow manage to address the issues at hand with utter sincerity and respect without placing words in the mouths of others, or telling your readers what you’d prefer they believe.

    I was particularly comforted by your final statement – the acknowledgement that our city planners are working diligently to manage relationships between a nearly incomprehensible number of stakeholders, while struggling to steer the City towards its best future. To understand the pressure on those shoulders and then to see the disrespect shown by some members of the community leaves me bewildered.

    The neighbourhood should have a voice, yes. But it needs to be a cohesive voice if it is to make any productive contribution. Rather than blowing up over renderings, perceptions of massing, or misdirected outrage concerning the arts space, why not organize a workshop to produce high-quality, refined responses to the proposal? If the proposal doesn’t work for you, Mount Pleasant, SHOW them one that will? Learn what it takes to guide communities into maturity.

  • Silly Season

    In reading all of this, I am saddened to think about what is how land values are affecting our neighbourhood shopping districts.

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have neighbourhoods built around the vibrant people attracting independent shops of a Rue Cler?
    http://www.parismarkets.net/RueCler.html

    Or to have real, true “high streets” (not the newer, sad arcades composed of crummy chain stores, that the Brits, alas, are building).

    That is something that attracts walkers, cyclists, transit users. That would make more density bearable. I wonder if Main Street can really be pulled together in a way that it becomes even more popular and fun, so that it actually drives what is happening around it, it terms of density. rather than the other way round.

    To lose that, would be a neighbourhood tragedy.

  • Glissando Remmy

    Thought of The Night

    “”form ever follows function”… and if not, we can make it to follow. Or we could always add some more density and height… This is the Law.”

    Jim was involved in the Woodwards project for many reasons, one of which was, that he liked the tandem Henriquez – Gillespie. To this day, I sincerely think that the better design was the one put forward by the Maleks – Lyon team. But that’s water under the bridge now.

    Last time I met Jim was that December evening when he received the honorable mention in the reConnect competition… and again I think that their submission, was well, not on the top of my list… as the total removal of the viaducts and a redesign of Pacific and Expo Boulevards with enhanced park space was too drastic considering the “large built form with an orientation that creates a barrier to the historic precinct.”
    Good Viaduct ammunition for Cllor Meggs & comp., just wait for it.

    But hey, in the city where Ballem is boss, Vision is her Godfather and everyone is ‘connected’, go figure… re-Connect!
    Joking.

    That was Toderian’s last Ball Dance, btw.
    Not joking.

    Having said that, I concur with most of the people that are saying that Jim was a man of the city. This city. In some ways he was more Mr. Vancouver than he was Mr. Birmingham.

    He would have made a great Mayor, as now we know, it takes one Gregor, one Magee and one Ballem to not be able to manage a city… maybe in the afterlife, Jim.

    Black hat, black shirt, black suit… green tie.
    No goodbys, Jim!
    This tweet is for you.

    “#LunchWithJimGreen at @CaffeArtigiano on Thurlow & Pender… No More! Sad 2 See Jim Go! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aht9hcDFyVw
    Yeah… I Guess He Did It His Way!”

    We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy

    PS.
    Frances… because I felt it was needed, especially here, today…

  • Michelle S of Mt Pleasant

    Robert B White #14

    Have you ever personally attended any of the Open Houses or Mt Pleasant Community Liaison meetings?

    If you did, then your comments bewilder me and if you did not, then your comments are out of line because consistently the citizens of Mt Pleasant attended these meetings which were set up by the City as an alleged way to hear the Communities voice.

    Succinctly and comprehensively the community asked the City time and time again to respect the Community Plan and the communities input as to how they felt Mt Pleasant would be best developed to support the infrastructure and progressive growth.

    Know what we got?…….a Development that does not even remotely fit into the Community Plan and which over 80% of the Community consistently told the city they had a problem with and were against in it’s current form.

    We even went further to present not only alternatives, but actual viable options with respect as to what we felt was a better fit and that which better served the Community.

    Know what we got in return from the City who organized this liaison group in the first place? Blank stares, skirting of the issues and this Development being referred in the same context the Community was saying no to.

    So the effort was put out by the citizens to try and work with the City but at the end of the day it was all for nought as the City does what they want Public Consultation be damned!

    So now you have alot of pissed off citizens and rightfully so!

  • Joseph K

    Silly Season #15

    Interesting you mention Paris; rue Cler is as narrow a strip as it is picturesque. Just like so many streets in this city 12 million people call home, rue Cler is also surrounded by a tight weave of mid-rises ranging between 7 to 8 floors, presumably with a FSR of 6 to 7.

    What you’re pointing at is the heart of the problem: Vancouver is a medium density city that needs to be much denser still, and packing more people per acre can’t possibly strip neighbourhoods from their character; it will actually give them life.

    The fact is that in spite of all its funkiness, Mount Pleasant is already an exclusive area where none of us can ever dream to buy a property. More units in the area will go a long way to keep mortgages to rise further still and will bring its mix of residents any neighbourhood needs to sustain its independent shops.

    Mount Pleasant will never look a bit like Paris, but if we allow much taller buildings to be built to compensate for all the short buildings, we may be able to reverse the ever increasing amount of families who end up spending their money in the burbs, and once again our streets will thrive.

  • Lari

    Thanks to JJJ for gathering the information showing that this proposed development would be close to 2x denser that surrounding new developments. Sadly the community will be sorely challenged to keep the CAC in the neighbourhood. It’s pretty clear that this administration is set on using the cash to bail out some troubled hair-brained idea close enough that they can argue that “it serves the neighbourhood”. Think debt-ridden Science World, or the ill-fated Playhouse expansion down Main Street and at SEFC. Mt.Pleasant will take the density, but not get the amenities that make that growth acceptable/livable.

  • Everyman

    @Robert W. White 14
    “If the proposal doesn’t work for you, Mount Pleasant, SHOW them one that will? Learn what it takes to guide communities into maturity.”

    Is it really up to a community of lay people to design the building? It should be enough that they have clearly indicated to Mayor, Council and the developer what they do NOT want.

  • Agustin

    @ Frances,

    I couldn’t get an answer I could understand from either one of them about what the community did agree to.

    I think that’s oversimplifying it. I bet there are about as many viewpoints as there are people in that community.

    @ Everyman,

    It should be enough that they have clearly indicated to Mayor, Council and the developer what they do NOT want.

    According to Frances’ figures, the community is actually split about evenly between wanting the project and not. It’s natural that those opposing it will raise a bigger stink than those favouring it.

  • Michelle

    I know that all this planning/developing clear visioning is on your agenda, and occupies your thoughts a great deal, great stuff everyone, but …
    It’s reassuring for me, and not surprised at all, to find out that the only sensitive one commenting on this thread is… Glissando Remmy #16
    For like it or not, we all knew who Jim Green was and what he did for this city.

    See ya later Jim!
    (May 25, 1943 – February 28, 2012) American-Canadian … longshoreman, taxicab driver, community activist, non-profit housing developer, municipal politician, university instructor and development consultant…

  • MB

    @ Frances: “I’m hoping to learn what it is the community actually agrees that it wants in the area.”

    @ JJJ #3: “Listening to the complaints I feel even more convinced that the developer could’ve made a proposal that would be acceptable to the community while still landing lots of density.”

    Bingo.

    The underlying issue here seems to be one of process: The MP community needs to define what is acceptable, because it currently doesn’t know what it wants on Broadway | Kingsway and had been caught short by this one project.

    This is why I keep coming back to neighbourhood urban design workshops. It is in this format that residents can explore not just what they do and do not find acceptable today, but to help discover what the future possibilities are.

    Residents having a powerful, pre-development say in FSR, heights, building massing on key sites and major streets …. these are the determinations that need to guide developers and the city.

    City and private planners, architects, urban designers, landscape architects and engineers can offer a wealth of assistance in formulating with resident groups a detailed Mount Pleasant Urban Design Plan, updated every decade in a new set of citizen workshops.

    Wouldn’t it have saved a lot of effort, tax expenditures and time for the developer to have been issued a set of resident-approved MP Urban Design Guidelines limiting heights on Watson St to the existing 30 feet, Broadway to 100-150 feet, and allowing a 12 storey tower on Kingsway, with an overall FSR of 4.7 — with allowable negotiated flexibility up to 5.0 FSR and 30 feet extra height in exchange for neighbourhood amenities?

    Well, maybe that’s a little too detailed, but even half this information is a helluva lot better than the near-absolute vacuum of a definition on what precisely the community would accept.

    Workshops would also force those who oppose lots and propose little to actually think constructively about defining their own future, and would help control developer speculation to a large degree. They would also place the city Planning department and their shortlisted consultants clearly in the service of the community first and foremost.

    Neighbourhood charrettes would be expensive to run, but we’ve been there before with City Plan and Neighbourhood Visioning (oh, that word again). But I’d accept this investment any day over and above the deconstructive and aversarial process that currently befalls the city now on a project-by-project basis.

    What is so wrong with a neighbourhood defining in detail not only what it would merely accept, but to go the extra kilometre and define what it desires most in this challenging century?

  • MB

    Robert White #14: “The neighbourhood should have a voice, yes. But it needs to be a cohesive voice if it is to make any productive contribution. Rather than blowing up over renderings, perceptions of massing, or misdirected outrage concerning the arts space, why not organize a workshop to produce high-quality, refined responses to the proposal? If the proposal doesn’t work for you, Mount Pleasant, SHOW them one that will? Learn what it takes to guide communities into maturity.”

    Amen!

    And I would add that the city should host said workshop(s).

  • MB

    @ Michelle #17: “Robert B White #14[,] Have you ever personally attended any of the Open Houses or Mt Pleasant Community Liaison meetings? If you did, then your comments bewilder me and if you did not, then your comments are out of line because consistently the citizens of Mt Pleasant attended these meetings which were set up by the City as an alleged way to hear the Communities voice.”

    I believe Robert (and I in a previous post) was talking about a new way of developing said community plans via extensive workshops, not the very limited public meetings on this one propect. There’s a huge difference.

    To me, workshops would be a continuation of the City Plan process where every citizen in a neighbourhood is given at least a chance to fill out a Visioning Workbook that defines actual detailed urban design guidelines, not just a set of broad principles.

    Better yet, an exceptional oppotunity to roll up their sleeves with their neighbours and actually draw, write, and otherwise articulate their objectives to make a better place to live, to define what they would accept, what they would negotiate on and what they want for the long range future given the challenges ahead.

    The coniptions over Rize (and other projects in the city) are indicative of, by no fault of their own, a lack of citizen involvement in the development of their neighbourhood and larger community.

  • Robert W. White

    @ Michelle S of Mt Pleasant #17

    Are the presentations or artifacts from the workshops online anywhere? The Mount Pleasant CLG site is only current up to 2009 and doesn’t include responses to this development. Indeed I have not attended any of the CLG meetings, so I apologize if my remarks seemed out of line. I’d love to correct this by educating myself on the positive contributions the community has made if you can direct me to them.

    @ Everyman #20

    This exemplifies the inherent difficulty in city building. Every client, regardless of the profession, knows what they don’t want. Of course no one expects the lay person to know how to plan and design a city – that’s why we have trained professionals. And remember, this is not the finalized proposal, but rather a rezoning. The design (of which I am not 100% supportive) is still a work-in-progress and must be considered as such.

  • Chris Porter

    I’m surprised a number of people think it’s possible to get a cohesive vision for the neighbourhood from residents. The small subset of residents commenting here can’t agree. Mount Pleasant is a diverse neighbourhood, with diverse residents. There’s a highly transient population where 70% of residents are renters and every 5 years 60% of the people have moved in/out (according to census data).

  • MB

    @ Chris Porter, what other way is there to garner more citizen involvement in Mount Pleasant than to apeal to the 30% AND renters to participate.

    In my opinion, City Plan was highly successful WRT getting citizens invloved, both at the workshop level and by mailing the hefty workbooks to every household and inviting everyone’s input. It took me four hours to fill out mine, and the results were tabulated and posted on line. A surprising number of residents who were accommodating to reasonable development and growth, and took an active interest in key development sites.

    Neighbourhood urban design workshops would build on that foundation. And if a group can get together to write the recent MPP without imploding why would it be so impossible to carry it further?

    It’s my experience that most hot-headed activists actually calm down and open their minds more to other’s opinions when they realize they are actually having a positive and measureable impact before a shovel bites into the dirt.

    It’s easier to build consensus at a table where everyone has one vote / opinion than at public meetings where an individual with sharp elbows and the loudest voice can butt in and overpower others whose opinions are just as valid.

    This, of course, requires a change in public consultation policies. But it’s painful and disheartening business-as-usual if change doesn’t come down the pipe, and there are a lot more projects like Rize over the horizon.

  • Michelle S of Mt Pleasant

    MB @ 25

    I love the way you think! of course a more legitimately involved community would be a better alternative to these Community Liasion groups set up by the City which essentially amount to nothing more than window dressing in attempt to fool the public into believing our opinion counts (don’t believe me, attend one and you will find out VERY quickly).

    Thats why in my presentation to City Hall last night I emphasized this exact point and called them out on it.

    Question is, how do we make this a fact and get such groups implimented?

  • Michelle S of Mt Pleasant

    Robert B. White @ 26

    Please forward your request for the relevant information to http://www.Rampvancouver.com as I believe some of it is posted there.

    You can also email your question to the same site and someone will send you the information.

    You can also submit a FOI to the City for the information…..well that is if you like to wait for really long periods of time for Public Information.

    This should be easily accessed information to the general public but need I say more….

  • Michelle S of Mt Pleasant

    Robert B. White @ 26

    Ooops, first line of Michelle @30 should have read……you can find the relevant information at http://www.Rampvancouver.com

  • Silly Season

    @Joseph K #18

    But why not plan for 6-8 stories throughout the area. Do you honestly feel that a few really tall glass towers would stop more development or make it that much more affordable to live there?

    I think you’d just end up with a few really tall, dense buildings that muck up the area.

    I think that you point out a very interesting fact. There are more people side by side in Paris. But those are lower level buildings.

    And, the quality of their public spaces, markets and blvds combined with the heights of those cheek-to-cheek multi-family buildings makes many of the arrondisements seem intimate rather than intimidating.

  • Terry Martin

    To say that the renderings of the buildings are unimportant is an error. Many people rely on such pictures to decide if a development of that size is appropriate,rather than trying to guess how high 215 feet looks.If you think that this misrendering was simply a mistake and common guide lines for such a rendering were not used on purpose,then what do you say to the comment by Lin and Ostry regarding the some 40,000 people per year coming to vancouver,when the city of van. website along with cencus figures show that from 2006-2011 our population grew by only 25,000 . Futher vancouver city along with translink agree that our population will grow by 107,000 in the next 29 years (2011 cencus=603,502 estimate for 2041 is 710,000. So in conclusion,is it a mistake to vastly overstate population growth and show a picture that understates the actual height of the project,probably not I would think