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One suggestion for Point Grey Road — take back the city land in front of existing houses and widen the road

July 25th, 2013 · 197 Comments

In just the last few days, I have heard dozens of suggestions from amateur engineers about what would make a better greenway/bike route through Kitsilano. Here’s one, to get the ball rolling among those who agree, disagree, or have a better idea that is neither of the above.

I’m happy to put up other comments that are well-written, to the point, and insult-free, if anyone wants to send them in.

In the meantime, from reader David Johannson:

It appears that a critical detail in all of this — and what has been downplayed deliberately or because details may tend to have less public appeal — is what can still occur within the existing road width.
I am retired, but was professionally involved for years with real estate and city planning issues.  I spent some time in the City Engineering Department yesterday to confirm what I had suspected.
Point Grey Road (along with the great majority of city roads) has a total dedicated width between private property boundaries of 66 feet (to convert this to metric multiply the imperial number by 0.3048 to equal 20.117 meters, which is usually rounded to 20.1 or 20.12 meters).  However, the actual constructed road occupies less than one-half of this width.  In fact, in the narrowest section between Alma and Waterloo Streets, the actual road — that is curb to curb — is some 27 feet wide. Within this constructed road there are two lanes of cars and one curb lane for parking. Adjacent to each of the north and south sides are curbs and sidewalks.
The remainder of the 66 foot road allowance — approximately 12 feet to the north and south of each sidewalk or 24 feet total– are vegetation buffers.  Please note that these are not my figures, they were the ones estimated by Kanji, who works with Mike Anderson in the Transportation Department of Engineering.  He did emphasize that the figures are subject to survey, but that the sizes quoted are what the existing city engineering drawings indicate.
The city representative confirmed that given the size of the road allowance and the extent of the existing usage, there is sufficient width left for the construction of additional pavement for bicycle uses. As an example of the ample room that is available, the existing road width of 27 feet allows for two lanes of cars and a partial width lane for parking.  An additional 13 feet of constructed road, which surely would easily accommodate two bicycle lanes, would still provide for more than 6 feet of landscape on each side of the road.
The issue of size of the landscape buffer is thus what has driven the entire development proposal.  Throughout the local area of Kitsilano, the private properties all appear to be larger than they really are, because the sidewalks have been constructed adjacent to or nearly adjacent to the road surfaces.  The sidewalks’ locations have thus provided the properties with, effectively, additional (but publicly owned) land for their own uses.   The property owners on Point Grey Road use this public buffer for their own benefits:  to aid in the landscaped appeal of their properties, to informally use the space for parking purposes, and to provide them with privacy.
However, throughout our neighbourhood of Point Grey and in many other residential areas of the city, the sidewalks are constructed within 3 feet of the property line.  The result here is that people using the sidewalk enjoy the public space between themselves and the road and are at the same time nearly adjacent to the private properties. Why should the Point Grey property owners enjoy a different street design than us?
It seems to me the same concept can be applied to Point Grey Road.  The City should move and reconstruct the sidewalks on both sides of the road allowance so that they are within 3 feet of the property lines. In this way all of the land between the two sidewalks may be used for cars and bicycles, or, if is is desired, wider sidewalks.  But above all, and especially because this particular road allowance is in demand by a variety of users, the city should use all of the public road allowance for public purposes.

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  • duder

    sweet….now i can legally play badminton on these people’s front lawn!

  • John Geddes

    @Richard 145

    – Safety – maybe but I wonder about the number of blind driveways on WPG Road. And I believe it would be easy to provide intersection protection along either 3rd or 1st.

    – Faster – again maybe but I don’t believe we are building nike lanes for high speed commuters. They do not mix with recreational riders in any case.

    More direct – nope. Nothing wrong with 1st or 3rd in this regard, and 3rd is actually better for access to 4th.

    More scenic – nope. I don’t see the difference between riding on a road with $5M homes vs riding on a road with $2M homes. In any case, you are riding on a street surrounded by homes. Both 1st and 3rd have parks along the route.

    There is nothing wrong with a bit of comprise on both parts. You seem to advocate a winner take all approach. I and many others clearly just don’t get it.

  • MB

    @ Mark, thanks for posting those insightful comments from Pricetags. It helps to see the big picture while these little battles rage. Perhaps Price’s comments would be taken more seriously if the costs to the taxpayers for all the road infrastructure built since 1950 was tallied up.

    In a word …. mindblowing.

  • MB

    @ brilliant

    People have used roads not because that’s what they wanted. Spending over 80% of the transportation budgets of several levels of government over three generations exclusively on Motordom was the ONLY choice.

    If Vancouverites “wanted” only roads and to continue the never-ending merry-go-round of perpetually trying to build their way out of congestion at massive cost, then they would not have elected Art Phillips and the original TEAM to stop the freeways before they destroyed a dozen neighbourhoods.

    This PGR paranoia about congestion and traffic armageddon is just a cooling ember from that original war.

  • MB

    @ threadkiller 108

    Mars? Well, it does have a CO2 -rich atmosphere, but not a plant in sight. Sorry, couldn’t resist that one.

    The Jericho Wharf was well known to have become unsafe, and as you noted it had creosoted wooden piles that tended to leach. I hope you have the same level of concern for other wooden pile-supported decks around Vancouver …. like, say the edges of Granville Island. As I noted originally a new pier would use steel piles. As Richard also noted a pier could have amenities built into the design, as do notable piers around the world, but the biggest attractions to me would be just being out OVER the crashing waves and being able to get to Alma quickly along a waterfront not obstructed by houses and speeding beemers.

    Obviously you prefer the status quo on PGR where the public enjoyment of this stretch of beach — please note the waterfront outside of the high tide line is PUBLIC — has been largely privatized because ACCESS is private, except for a handful of individual lots located at street ends that were bought by the Park Board back when they were stiil somewhat affordable.

    A pier would be perceived as an “eyesore” predominantly by the holders of the $15 million deeds on the north side of PGR. I suggest a pier would become widely accepted by tens of thousands of users every year who would have no other way to enjoy the waterfront with clear, unhindered access without spending $350 million buying up the homes of the uber rich or destroying the beach with a seawall.

    Cul-de-sacing PGR to expand the otherwise token little parks and to provide a safer route for bikes and pedestrians will no doubt result in a potentially radical increase of visitors who do not feel safe dodging the mirrors of Navigators and Boxsters whizzing by at twice the posted 30 km/hr.

    I don’care one bit about the social status adjacent landowner’s as long as they are treated like anyone else and access to their lots is maintained and public parking is allowed on the same street footprint for park patrons, preferably metered and regulated

  • Richard

    @John Geddes

    You would be wrong then. Just take a look at the ICBC map.
    http://www.icbc.com/crashmap-cyclists
    Pretty much all the four way intersections on bike routes around the city have cycling collisions with motor vehicles.

    The only bikeway that had no collisions over the five years for its entire distance along Wall St is the Portside route, which, like Pt Grey, is along the water so it only has 3 way intersections. Once the traffic is diverted, Pt Grey should be just as safe.

    I believe there will be no parking along the north side of Pt Grey so hidden driveways should be not a problem.

  • John Geddes

    @Richard 153
    I guess we just disagree.

    I checked your map for accidents from Jericho to MacDonald over 5 years:
    – zero accidents on w1st
    – five on w3rd (2 at Alma which I presume would be solved with a light).

    I have ridden both routes. W3rd many times. Even without any traffic calming, I would have to say that these are very quiet streets. The last time I rode w3rd I counted moving cars (any moving cars) — all of 2 (except for N-S on Alma and MacDonald).

    I understand your general point about intersections and I agree that open, unprotected intersections are a risk. I am presuming the smart minds in the traffic department would find a solution that would provide much superior protection than at typical cross streets and superior than currently on existing bikeways.

  • Richard

    Signalized intersections at busy streets certainly have not proven that safe for cyclists or anyone else for that matter. Look at the map. There are typically way more cycling crashes at these intersections.

    The current Seaside route using 3rd has cyclists crossing busy Pt Grey, Macdonald and Alma. Signals make crossing by bike easier and sometimes quicker but not sure that the case can be made that they make crossing that much safer.

    When a route with very few intersections like Pt Grey can be used, it is obviously the best choice for cycling safety.

  • brilliant

    @MB 151-Art Phillips “won” that “battle” on the backs of residents if 1st and 12th. And even then only because commonsense middle class citizens had begun deserting Vancouver in droves realizing they got more for their money in the burbs. So the fate of Vancouver is left to the basement suite dwellers who can’t afford a car and the wealthy who can buy their politicians. The notion that those lame pocket parks on Point Grey Road are suddenly going to become mecca for cyclists is ludicrous.

  • brilliant

    @Richard 153-and a woman was killed today because she fell off her bike into.traffic. Not caused by any collision. Indeed the majority of injuries to cyclists are due to such self-inflicted spills. No new.product today would.make it to market when it was so unsafe.

  • Richard

    @brilly

    It was the SUV that caused her death.

    The automobile would never had made it to market either. 1.2 million are killed per year in automobile collisions.

    This tragedy shows the reason why separated bike lanes are needed

  • gman

    This is another perspective by someone using Creelman instead of York,he duffs it a bit by missing a turn and some other minor mistakes but he does make some interesting comments.It is a little long though.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv6TV8irg_4

  • gman

    A short segment on the news tonight about reclaiming city land was interesting although I found the comments by Heather Deal to be completely disingenuous implying that these so called retaining walls have infrastructure attached to them,first off they could only build their walls up to their property line and that would have been a requirement of their building permit. For her to imply that removal of encroaching structures would somehow be a cost to the city is ridiculous.So for those that try and say widening the road in certain sections will cost tens of millions is equally ridiculous as none of this has been cost estimated anyway.
    Moving the money from a bad idea too a good and equitable idea is not an increase in cost,especially when neither has been properly accessed.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTCOtH_YOFw

  • gman

    Richard #158
    “It was the SUV that caused her death.”
    For you to spin the unfortunate death of this poor women in order too move your cause is sick.Do you even think about the driver who wasn’t at fault at all in this situation but will have to live with what happened for the rest of their life.
    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vancouver+cyclist+dies+after+falling+sidewalk+into+traffic/8723409/story.html

  • Bryn

    The main areas that appear to have lots of “extra” space are in the 3400-3800 blocks of Point Grey Road, which aren’t really the “problematic” portions.

    From a traffic perspective, the biggest pinch point is right around the 2700 block. That is one of the busiest parts of Point Grey Road (before traffic turns south on Macdonald). There is essentially no available city land there at all – if you look on Vanmap the property lines are right at the edge of the sidewalks. There’s virtually no setback from the property lines to the houses themselves either – you’d essentially have to purchase a few lots to make anything happen there.

  • spartikus

    Not caused by any collision

    Speaking of exploitive spin, you have no idea what happened. Only a woman fell into traffic. It could have been an accident. She could have been pushed. We have no idea. So shut up.

    Indeed the majority of injuries to cyclists are due to such self-inflicted spills.

    According to ICBC’s stats, this is factually incorrect – the majority of injuries actually involved motor vehicles and fault was right down the middle. It’s often not black or white in an accident – often both parties share in the blame.

    It was the SUV that caused her death.

    This is one of the facts we do know. Notice, brilliant, he said “SUV” and not “driver”. It’s a statement. Not an assignment of fault. What it is, however, is a tragedy.

    You are, once again, projecting.

  • F.H.Leghorn

    “So shut up”. If only it was that easy.
    Who can doubt that Richard’s pulse started to race when he heard the news of the collision? Another powerful argument in favour of the bicycle and aganst the car. In his hands a double tragedy becomes just one more in an endless series of increasingly desperate justifications for advancing the agenda of a small interest group.
    All of this will be moot when the rains come and ridership falls to seasonal norms.

  • Chris Keam

    “Who can doubt that Richard’s pulse started to race”

    That’s a completely unfair remark that really speaks to your character Mr Leghorn. How contemptible.

  • jenables

    Richard, can you tell me why signaled intersections have not proven any safer for cyclists? I find it incredulous that you refuse to acknowledge how many cyclists disregard these signals, or argue that they don’t apply to them because they have built up momentum. Whether you are driving, cycling or walking in the city, stopping is part of SAFE transportation. Advocating against this is not increasing safety. We all have to stop from time to time, and that’s not wrong, it’s fair and part of getting around in a city. This comment is mostly based on your reaction when I suggested the cause of the accidents on Cornwall be investigated so the issue can be properly addressed. The rules apply to all of us. What I’m saying is in no way related to the tragedy that occurred yesterday, to be clear.

  • brilliant

    @parties 166-Wrong. You forget there are a host of bike injuries ICBC has nothing to do with as no cars are involved. And as we are all told by the bike lobby, bikes don’t need operator insurance.

  • Threadkiller

    Re the lack of operator insurance on bikes…Hypothetically speaking, if a cyclist was to run a stop sign or a red light at an intersection, and a motorist, in trying to avoid hitting her/him, was to collide with another motorist, who would likely be deemed at fault, and how might ICBC respond? I’m genuinely curious… though I realize there would be too many variables in such a situation to provide a definitive answer purely on spec. But just hypothesize for a moment.

  • MB

    @ brilliant 159

    If Art Phillips hadn’t ruled in the early 70s, then the multitudes you claim rode into suburban Stepford Wives nirvana would’ve used freeways built on about 4 square km of expropriated land occupied by affordable housing, shops, schools and human beings, leaving the city billions in debt.

    That didn’t happen.

    What did happen was those who chose the periphery also chose a lot of chesp, poorly built tract housing (entire neighbourhoods built in the 70s and 80s are now in decline in many suburbs), the sacred right to spend $20,000 a year on two cars per family, to grow unhealthy from spending hundreds of hours a year behind the wheel instead of walking — even for a loaf of bread — and to nurture dysfunctional families out of the boredom of mall culture.

    Because you defend your right to use PGR as a vehicular rat running route I assume you live near there and, by your definition, are either a basement suite tenant or a rich guy.

    As usual your exaggeration and hubris runs two steps ahead of reason. Of the 620,000 people who live in Vancouver, about 200,000 more than when Phillips killed the freeways, what is the proportion of basement suites and megabucks homes to everything else?

    Take your time for a change, tough guy.

  • brilliant

    @Mb-oh please. How bout giving us a list of these suburban ghettos you claim exist.

  • jenables

    Pop quiz, MB – how long has the Georgia viaduct been around, and what was it’s original purpose?

  • MB

    @ brilliant, there are pockets of poorly maintained housing everywhere, but the plastic condos and tract housing built in the 80s by the lowest denominator builders are some of the worst.

    You want actual locations and projects? Try a BC Housing search for leaky condos for about eight billion dollars worth.

  • MB

    jen, you know as well as I that the viaducts were a fragment of the former freeway network which, thankfully failed.

    FYI I lived in Strathcona for two years in the late 70s and still think it’s one of the coolest neighbourhoods around. I cannot imagine what it would be like now if the 6-lane freeway to the Trans Canada from the viaducts was allowed to slice though it, or the basketweave interchange and 8-lane freeway to Richmond was built at Main x Union.

  • jenables

    From Wikipedia:
    “The first Georgia Street Viaduct was built between 1913 and 1915. The narrow structure included streetcar tracks that were never used. At one point, every second lamppost was removed to reduce weight.[1] It was replaced in 1972 by the current viaduct, which is structurally separated and contains three lanes for each direction of traffic.”

    My dad remembers the rickety old viaduct, which was one lane in either direction. I just can’t handle hearing people go on about forty years and freeways when they don’t know what they are taking about. The Georgia st one has been here much longer than you realize, before freeways existed. There is a steep escarpment on the eastern edge of downtown; the viaducts are the ramp, a bridge for east Vancouver to keep congestion OUT of the rest of strathcona and the dtes. If they aren’t there, there is no direct east west connection from the eastside to downtown from Hastings to first ave which isn’t really very direct at all… leaving only Hastings and Powell, which are both at the north end. I figure you must be in the development industry though, so you don’t care if there is cabbage to be had. Funny how it’s now about righting a historical wrong? By dumping more ugly condos into the neighborhood? I can’t believe people swallow that garbage. “Whether the viaducts come down or not, you STILL won’t get your park.” – Can’t remember who posted the comment about the sfu meeting where this was said, but it’s very telling.

  • spartikus

    There is a more extensive history here.

    It was built initially for rail traffic. And it apparently wasn’t built very well.

  • Chris Keam

    “I figure you must be in the development industry though, so you don’t care if there is cabbage to be had.”

    Hmmm, it doesn’t reflect well on a person when they judge other’s motivations, without a shred of proof, from behind a pseudonym. You actually owe MB an apology for that. It would be nice if you can admit that it was uncalled-for and unfair.

    This documentary (linked below) covers the viaduct battle at some length and might prove more instructive than relying on the memories and viewpoint of your father.

    http://ww3.tvo.org/video/164080/urban-goddess-jane-jacobs-reconsidered

  • Bill Lee

    @jenables // Jul 31, 2013 at 11:53 pm #177

    Yes, the Viaduct was there for many decades before the new monstrosity.
    One of many pictures in City Archives where the current BC Hydro substation on Main was being built, sadly replacing the old Imperial Theatre (734 Main Street), showing the end of the viaduct. The end is still there, but those too lazy to get on their bikes, a Google streetview west might suffice.

    http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/b-c-electric-sub-station-under-construction-at-main-street-and-georgia-street;rad
    Reference code AM1545-S3-: CVA 586-4792 (1946)

  • jenables

    You’re right Chris. I made that assumption based on urging of development in several posts, and a perceived peculiar dislike of older buildings and infrastructure. Assuming makes an ass out of u and me. So sorry to make that assumption mb. Chris, I certainly don’t see you giving waltyss a hard time when he attacks others completely unprovoked, perhaps you could hold everyone to the same standard?

  • jenables

    Ps, Chris, I am interested in your video even if it was attached to what I feel was a very dismissive comment. I just don’t have fifty two minutes right now, so if you tell me the relevant section I’ll watch it. Memory can fail people, sure, but that’s not the case here at all. Cheers! Might I suggest another Emily Post sponsored pub night?

  • waltyss

    jenables, postiing idiotic, false or factually incorrect posts, or posts that attack others is provocation enough. You are guilty of at least some those so stop playing the victim.

  • brilliant

    @MB 176- Stratcona in the late 60’s was a slum worse than any suburban ones you claim now.exist. I’m.so.happy you liked it a decade later but residents along 1st and 12th paid the price for your enjoyment.

  • jenables

    I have a waltyss filter. It reminds me that when faced with the reasons or facts behind thoughts, opinions and explanations, he either doesn’t respond or lowers himself to simple ad hominem attacks… as though it is sacrosanct to question the decisions made by the cov. Since none of us need to witness that, I’m filtering it out. Chris, anything to say re #183?

  • Chris Keam

    @Jenables:

    Actually I have called out waltsyss for rude behaviour in the past. Not going to dig up the thread, you’ll have to trust me on that. It is however not the point. We’re all free to behave like rude assholes if we choose. It seems it’s the default setting for people on both sides, myself included. You don’t like it. Be the change you wish to see, rather than engaging in the tit-for-tat schoolyard name-calling antics.

    My objection was to the unfounded accusation of financial interest being behind a commenter’s remarks. It’s given in our system that a person has the right to face their accuser. If one is going to accuse a person of monetary self-interest, then one better be willing to give up anonymity IMO and be prepared to provide a real identity (and potential motivations) up for examination.

    And no, I already spent some time finding that link for you. If you have time to post as regularly as you do, I think it’s not unrealistic that you can find an hour to ensure you’re not spreading bad information. I’m not your secretary. Make your own damn coffee 🙂

    Cheers,
    CK

  • jenables

    I have an idea Chris, how about we quit polarizing everything with all this talk of “sides” actually listen to people’s specific points and quit taking offense and attacking each other? A different point of view on anissue is not a personal attack or a license to name call, period. You called me out, I explained and apologized to mb. Also, I have given my full name out. I organized a meet for Pete’s sake! I’ve met people IN REAL LIFE, I don’t have anything to hide, but I totally disagree with your statement that anyone who questions monetary self interest needs to subject themselves to a full investigation. If it is public money or charitable donations being spent, then people SHOULD question how it was spent and who benefited from it, if it is not obvious, without having to draw the ire of those who aren’t being forthcoming. Those people might try to make your life miserable and I’m telling you this from experience. I’m actually quite disappointed, because I usually appreciate that you make an effort to be diplomatic, even if I disagree with you. Your last comment changed my mind… If you are being the change you wish to see, nice talking to you.

  • brilliant

    The question I’d put to Chris, Richard etc is: if some benefactor stepped forward with the funds to reclaim the public right of way and expand the road to accommodate all modes of transport, would they support it?

  • Chris Keam

    Hi Brilliant:

    My personal opinion in response to a hypothetical question from an anonymous Internet commenter is pointless. Let’s stick to the known knowns, plenty of room for healthy debate there. However, I’m happy to ‘blue-sky’ with real people. Feel free to provide a verifiable proof of who you are and how to get in touch and we could certainly discuss fantasy scenarios in greater detail.

    @Jenables

    1) Nobody called you any names.

    2) You are creating a hyperbolic straw-man. No one is suggesting people subject themselves to a ‘full investigation’. My position is that when a poster starts questioning the motivations of others, in fairness, they should be willing to undergo the same treatment… and they should ‘put their name on it’ so that it is absolutely clear who is making the accusation. The idea that it’s OK for people to anonymously trash others may have a place in your average police-state, but it should be discouraged in a civil society. Anonymous posters trashing other anonymous posters pollutes the well. Further, you weren’t questioning the spending of public funds or charitable donations. You idly speculated on the integrity of another poster and their alleged self-interest, based on assumptions and the fact the person in question doesn’t share your world-view.

    3) That was the diplomatic response. The suggestion I wade through an hour-long documentary because you are too busy to fact check your own erroneous claims reeked of entitlement and disregard for others’ time IMO.

  • brilliant

    @Chris Keam 189-an evasion to be sure. One can only conclude you don’t want to be caught on record as part if the war on cars.

    I’ll be waiting to ring the BS detector when you engage with Tessa, MB, Spartikus, Boohoo etc etc

  • jenables

    Nobody called me any names?
    183waltyss // Aug 1, 2013 at 12:41 pmjenables, postiing idiotic, false or factually incorrect posts, or posts that attack others is provocation enough. You are guilty of at least some those so stop playing the victim.

    I’m guessing victim isn’t a name, and berating someone else’s opinion is ok if you disagree with them?

    I’m actually really starting to feel like you are just dumping on me, and in doing so actively encouraging people like waltyss to behave in the above manner. As far as I’m concerned, if mb didn’t have a problem there was no need for you to blow this out of proportion just because people (not myself) have accused you of the same thing in a much more direct and specific manner. Now you are busy taking offense because I asked if you might tell me which part of an hour long documentary was relevant. Geez Louise, beginning, middle or end would have sufficed. Lastly, I’m not anonymous. I’ve made an effort to meet people just to avoid this very problem. I’ve stated my name before. You’re just going to have to find it yourself. You might enjoy arguing semantics but I find all of this VERY condescending, irrelevant and a lot more personal than it should be. Not why I’m here.

  • Chris Keam

    @Brilliant:
    You’re welcome to call it what you want. I outlined a scenario where I’d be happy to engage in speculation with you. I don’t feel beholden to answer your questions. You don’t want to engage on my terms. End of story.

    @Jenables
    ‘nobody’ was a poor choice of words on my part as was ‘both sides’ when I meant one and all. I was referring only to myself, in a conversational fashion w/r/t ‘nobody’

    I’m not offended. I’m just telling you how your request came across IMO. As for anonymity… again IMO, if I can’t google your handle and come up with a clear answer as to who I’m dealing with that’s anonymity to me. I’m certainly not ‘dumping’ on you. I’ve made the same remarks on numerous occasions regarding my opinion on the responsibilities that accompany posting under a pseudonym.

  • jenables

    Curious, what was my erroneous claim?

    Your last paragraph is giving me flashbacks to what happened to spartikus, not sure if it was on here or elsewhere. Anyone else remember that unpleasantness? Just to be certain Chris, I am not basing any of my arguments on potential financial gain, not sure why you would think I was. I’m a hairdresser, and as a hairdresser I have some advice for you, if you are willing to hear it.

  • Chris Keam

    “Just to be certain Chris, I am not basing any of my arguments on potential financial gain, not sure why you would think I was.”

    I have made no such assumption or claim. Again with the jumping to conclusions. WTF?

  • jenables

    It’s given in our system that a person has the right to face their accuser. If one is going to accuse a person of monetary self-interest, then one better be willing to give up anonymity IMO and be prepared to provide a real identity (and potential motivations) up for examination.

    I obviously misinterpreted this sentence. Hey man, you didn’t tell me my erroneous claim!

  • Adam Fitch

    David, your proposal is well researched and well written and presented. Not that earth-shatteringly innovative, though.

    Road widening and road improvement or bike lane or recreational greenway projects within existing road allowances (rights-of-way) are common, they have been done many times in Burnaby, for example.

    The real issue is not the technical feasibility, or the legal authority, as you have impied, or even the financial feasibility, as other commenters have pointed out. Financial impact is a factor, but not the principal factor.

    The real issue is real-politic. A project of this magnitude – ripping up privately installed landscaping, as Frank Ducote points out – these days requires extensive public consultation with adjoining land-owners. It does not require unanimous consent, but it would require substantial consent. In my estimate, considerably more than majority consent. I just believe that Vancouver City staff have already done the calculus, and have concluded (privately) that they would never get that level of consent.

  • peakie

    Point Grey Road residents oppose next phase of bike lane
    by Bob Mackin
    Vancouver Courier April 28, 2016 02:04 PM

    The Vision Vancouver majority could soon rubber-stamp another $6.4 million of work on the city’s “Golden Mile”and Lavin said it will cause
    more problems.
    A staff report for the May 4 policy and strategic priorities committee
    meeting proposes widening the north sidewalk between Alma Street and
    Tatlow to three metres as an inland substitute for the rejected seawall.
    On-street parking would be banned on the north side, the road narrowed
    between Waterloo Street and Tatlow Park and widened slightly between
    Alma and Waterloo. Cul-de-sacs would be refined near Trutch Street and
    some trees and hedges would be removed. If passed, construction would
    begin this fall.
    “The cost is much, much more than we would want to spend if we, as
    taxpayers, had a say,” Lavin said. “We think that the money would be
    much better spent on social housing or transportation issues in other
    parts of the city, frankly we don’t see the need for an illustrious,
    wide promenade on the north side of Point Grey Road.”