Frances Bula header image 2

Mayor throws a little cold water and caution onto viaducts plan

July 25th, 2012 · 75 Comments

It was confusing yesterday to see most media outlets report the big news out of council as the city’s plan for a “super-road,” something that has been in city documents for over a month.

This was the slideshare the city posted May 28, which provided the framework for the public open houses in June that the planning and engineering staff then reported on yesterday. The whole point of the slideshare and discussions was to talk about the super-road idea, and the way it would absorb the viaducts’ traffic.

The real news, which business groups were watching closely, was that Mayor Gregor Robertson issued a big, fat: “We’re not going to do anything too fast and let’s take a closer look at a whole bunch of things” statement. That was a relief to several parties.

What he said exactly, in case you are dubious about my sketchy translation above, was (from the city’s news release):

The Mayor included the following measures among his priorities:

·         Making immediate traffic improvements  to Prior Street, including re-instating parking and exploring speed bumps and other calming measures, to make the street safer for local residents

·         Pursuing the Malkin connector to divert traffic, including heavy industrial, off residential streets of Strathcona and Grandview Woodlands and onto designated routes

·         A timeline for deliverables for local residents, including expanding park space and affordable housing, as well as options for phased or partial removal of the viaducts, as opposed to one single removal

·         Incorporating any removal of the viaducts with the City’s Economic Action Strategy goals of increasing job density, particularly in the clean technology and digital media industries, in False Creek flats and along Great Northern Way

·         Ensuring that the flow of commercial goods is a priority and that the needs of the business community are considered, as outlined by the Vancouver Board of Trade

So what’s interesting is that he chose not to barrel ahead but get cautious, something that Geoff Meggs, the councillor who has been the most vocal advocate for the viaducts take-down, officially supported but which had to be seen as a bit of a setback.

I understand that the mayor’s caution came because it appeared some business groups were getting worried. The Vancouver Board of Trade has expressed some qualified support, but raised a lot of questions about consequences.

One group has hired former city traffic engineer Ian Adam, who was at council yesterday watching the proceedings. He said his preliminary assessment is that taking down the viaducts will cost city businesses $27 million in extra costs for delivering goods.

As well, he said the planned new Pacific Boulevard, which will have to take the 40,000 cars a day from the viaduct along with its usual traffic of 30,000, will inevitably end up being congested.

That’s quite different from what current transportation engineer Jerry Dobrovolny is saying, which is that the new Pacific Boulevard could easily take the worst-case scenario of traffic with no significant impact.

(It should be noted that Ian was always somewhat skeptical, in his time at city hall, of the newfangled, no-new-car-space theories of younger engineers like Peter Judd, who is now the head of the city’s engineering department.)

There’s a lot more public discussion likely to bubble up over this.

The city’s feedback at open houses indicated 69 per cent of people who came out were supportive of taking the viaducts down. But a new poll, by Barb Justason, gives that a bit more context. Yes, people downtown are quite supportive about removing the viaducts. Elsewhere in the city, there’s more of a split.

One strong advocate, though, who is coming out forcefully in favour of the viaducts-removal plan: Larry Beasley. The city’s former planning director made his first appearance at a public city council meeting yesterday since he left the city six years ago, just to give silent support as staff made their presentations.

 

Categories: Uncategorized

  • Tessa

    For those predicting traffic chaos, Vancouver is not the first city in the world to remove a viaduct (See Seoul, San Francisco, Portland, etc.) and traffic chaos has not been their experience. It’s an easily managed situation that can improve the situation for everyone while building a true neighbourhood with more parkland.

    Will it cost money? Yes. So does anything worthwhile. But it will also save money in maintaining the existing viaduct as it continues to age to the end of its expected lifespan. And it could hypothetically also pay for itself in new land available for development, if that’s the route council chooses to go. Or it could free up space for affordable housing.

  • IanS

    @Tessa #21:

    “For those predicting traffic chaos, Vancouver is not the first city in the world to remove a viaduct (See Seoul, San Francisco, Portland, etc.) and traffic chaos has not been their experience.”

    I don’t know if that’s accurate or not, but, in any case, wouldn’t it depend on the circumstances of each city? The amount of traffic, the alternative capacity, alternative transit etc?

    And, FWIW, there are plenty of bad traffic outcomes which fall short of “traffic chaos”. There was a report not long ago which cited Vancouver as being most congested city in Canada (IIRC). Again, I don’t know if that’s entirely accurate and reliable, but I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the viaduct removal will result in less congestion. IMO, based on what I’ve seen, removal of the viaducts will make an already pretty bad downtown traffic situation worse.

    “It’s an easily managed situation that can improve the situation for everyone while building a true neighbourhood with more parkland. ”

    I’m curious to know your qualifications for making that assessment. I very much hope you’re correct, but I’m skeptical. The traffic analysis presented by the City, surely the most optimistic possible presentation, looks pretty ominous to me.

  • jolson

    Hi #49
    Your photo reference is not the viaduct……. but the old Cambie Bridge, Yaletown and the Roundhouse can be seen in the foreground.

  • Sean Bickerton

    Really pleased to see Mayor’s sensible stance.

    Larry Beasley’s plan won the hearts of the city for many different reasons, but city’s proposed direction tramples on very important aspects of that plan. Most importantly the Malkin connector mentioned by Mayor Robertson.

    No one is going to be willing to make the difficult compromises necessary unless we’re assured in advance that the ultimate plan is something much closer to the Beasley team’s award-winning proposal embraced by large majority.

  • West End Gal

    Sean #54
    “Really pleased to see Mayor’s sensible stance.”
    Sorry to disagree with you… Robertson has nor the background , nor the knowledge to make any stances or give any advice other than what the “shadow” cabinet behind him tells him to say/ do.
    Period.
    Audience… meet the marionette show.
    Same go for Tessa, who seems to have all the answers. As per Ian S … “I’m curious to know your qualifications for making that assessment. “

  • Victor

    I hate to throw cold water on this very worthwhile and heated discussion, specially where some excellent questions are being presented about the real need to remove the viaducts – like…what’s the reason? Well, we all know the answer to that one!

    But if $100 mill is so easy to come by, why isn’t the disintegrating Burrard Street Bridge being repaired at supposedly far less cost?

    Take a walk over it soon. Observe the crumbling balustrades, rusting rebar and spalling concrete. Surely fixing that major connector before the next earthquake is a much more sensible plan than pulling down the viaducts?

    But then again guess not much of the land around the sides of the bridge is owned by V V donors. Oh and the South end is owned by the Squamish. Once they get cracking to develop that land they will not be keen to allow cranes etc in for needed upgrades and repairs. So better get on with the work soon.

    What is wrong with these Cllrs that they cannot figure out the correct order of the city’s priorities?

  • Julia

    wonder how many miles of cracked and heaving sidewalks could be repaired for 100 million!

  • brilliant

    Or how many parks $100 mil could create in the real East Van, instead of gifting yet another park for yuppies on the shores of False Creek.

  • gman

    I bet if there were no viaducts they would be telling us we need to build viaducts,screw the cost buy the cat another canary.

  • Frances Bula

    @Michelle. Just FYI, Holborn does not own any property in this neighbourhood.

  • David

    @Jolson 53, click on the photo, you can see the Hart McHarg Viaduct north of the Connaught bridge. http://vintageairphotos.com/bo-46-146/

    Tessa’s right, not everybody gets up every morning at the alarm clocks warning and takes the 8:15 (the last WCE train from Coquitlam) into the city.

    Julia… agree, if there isn’t $100,000 for the Historic Streetcar, how can there be $100,000,00 for destroying the viaducts, for what.

    @Victor… what to do about the crumbling balustrades on the Burrard bridge evokes protests from heritage preservationists. Maybe we should hold a plebiscite like in 1982, should we build a new Cambie bridge, or squeeze another 30 years out of the Connaught Bridge and let the people of 2012 deal with it http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ADFlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RIwNAAAAIBAJ&dq=harry%20rankin%20commercial%20cambie%20bridge&pg=5917%2C93046

  • jolson

    Thanks David,
    I see some buildings under the original viaducts as well as the old coal gasification plant which gave us some of the most polluted ground water and soil to be found under a park anywhere in the City.

  • teririch

    @Victor #56:

    Thank you! I have been ‘harping’ on the decay of the historic Burrard Street Bridge for months now and have tweeted many of the pics I have taken over the course.

    Today CBC posted an article surrounding the mess the cobble stone streets of Gastown have become. The patchwork mess they are.

    I see city haller Kevin Q is defending the lack of general upkeep of our parks, roads and boulevards by tweeting that a recent poll showed that 82% of Vancouverties said the ‘city’ was doing a good job on garbage collection.

    Well yipee!

    How he connects the two or considers that a remotely suitable answer makes zero sense.

    This city is a ‘visual’ mess. It is becoming an embarassement when you consider the level of tourism that travels through here.

    It is about time dollars be directed to the ‘needs’ first, and all the ‘wants’ after that.

    There are pot holes on West 4th at Arbutus that could swallow a small child.

  • Lewis N. Villegas

    I hate to throw cold water on this very worthwhile and heated discussion, specially where some excellent questions are being presented about the real need to remove the viaducts – like…what’s the reason? Well, we all know the answer to that one!

    Victor 56

    Do we? I mean, if there was an earthquake Victor would you prefer to be

    (a) on the Viaducts; or

    (b) under the Viaducts?

    Those things have not been seismically upgraded since they were built… and way back in 1970 we didn’t have an earthquake code.

  • Joe Just Joe

    The structures meet the design and loading standards at the time of construction, but do not meet current seismic design standards. Having said that and due to the nature of the structural system (girders built into pier caps), the structure should perform relatively well in an earthquake. A summary of the anticipated costs to maintain the structure are provided below:

    Yearly maintenance costs ~$25, 000 per year
    Short Term retrofits ~$200,000
    Maintenance required in next 5+ years ~$1 million (barrier rehabilitation)
    Maintenance required in the next 15+ years – $3 million (deck and joint rehabilitation)
    Seismic upgrades ~$5 million

    If the viaducts were retained it is estimated with the above maintenance they would have a remaining service life of 40+ years.

    Think I’d take my chances that the viaducts would survive a quake. Seems that the cost of keeping the viaducts for 40 more yrs is a token of the $80M to take them down, let alone build the super road.

  • Joe Just Joe

    Sorry forgot the source, it’s from the original report to the city.

    http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20110726/documents/ttra2.pdf

  • Don

    Joe Just Joe: Thanks.

  • Don

    Lewis N. Villegas: You are trying to blow smoke up our … whatever … how about some intellectual integrity?

  • Bill Lee

    from the Frances Bula of Toronto, Siri Agrell

    Toronto’s Underpass Park aims to turn neglected space into community hub

    by Siri Agrell – Urban Affairs Reporter
    The Globe and Mail Published Thursday, Aug. 02 2012, 3:03 PM EDT Last updated Thursday, Aug. 02 2012, 3:10 PM EDT

    Political harmony can occasionally be found in unexpected places – in Toronto on Thursday it happened under the Gardiner Expressway.
    The official opening of Underpass Park, a unique community space complete with basketball courts, play structures and a public art piece carved out beneath a highway off ramp, was attended by Mayor Rob Ford, along with representatives of three levels of government….
    The park is the first of its kind to be built beneath an underpass in Toronto, and John Campbell [ of Waterfront Toronto ] said it is an example of his agency’s “novel approach to smart, sustainable city building.”

    In addition to the mayor, the park’s ribbon cutting was attended by Member of Parliament Peter Van Loan, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, city councillor Norm Kelly, and provincial MPP Soo Wong, of Scarborough-Agincourt.

    Located beneath the Eastern Avenue and Richmond/Adelaide overpasses in the West Don Lands, Underpass Park is at the centre of development in preparation for the 2015 PanAm Games.

    The athletes village will be located nearby, and the presence of federal, provincial and local politicians seemed to indicate a renewed commitment to the Waterfront Toronto’s vision and timeline.

    Mr. Van Loan made a joke at the expense of Waterfront Toronto, which was given long-term jurisdiction over the city lakefront lands as a way to mitigate cross jurisdictional issues and disputes. He said they came up with a way of dealing with intergovernmental bickering over the waterfront by “creating yet another level of government.”

    Underpass Park is indicative of the support the Conservative government has given to municipal infrastructure projects, he added, noting that the federal coffers offered up $9-million of the project’s $9.5-million budget.

    Constructed in two phases, the first completed sections of the park sit between St. Lawrence Street and Bayview Avenue. Visitors can access the completed portions of the park from River Street, south of King Street. Phase two of Underpass Park, located west of St. Lawrence Street to Eastern Avenue, is expected to open in spring 2013. The completed project covers a total of 1.05 hectares, or 2.7 acres.

    “This park is a lynchpin,” said architect and urban planner Ken Greenberg. “It’s actually things like this that are the glue, that hold it all together and make it a real place.”

    The design of the space is simple and welcoming. There are basketball courts and a skate park, which was in use “even before the fences came down,” according to Mr. Campbell.

    And on the underside of the actual off ramp, Toronto artist Paul Raff has installed a public art piece called Mirage, which uses mirrored stainless steel panels suspended from the overpass to reflect and bounce light within the space.

    “It’s about how it reflects and transforms the place,” said Mr. Raff, who attended the opening with his young daughter. “I’m happy now that I’m seeing mothers with strollers and children roaming through the place.”

    David Leinster, a landscape architect with The Planning Partnership who conceptualized Underpass Park along with urban design firm Phillips Farevaag Smallenberg, said the space was meant to make the neighbourhood feel more accessible, to lighten the area beneath the highway and draw people from one side to the other.

    “It’s amazing seeing it come to realization,” he said. “This area has been so under-serviced, it’s in a real transition into a mixed use community.

  • David

    A Sun article noted that a 4 metre rise in ocean level would result in False Creek returning to its 19th century shoreline…. http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/1/1/1106042/6e6a18a8-ac11-4592-b154-91838be22f1d-A20894.jpg

  • Frank Ducote

    David – For a moment there I thought you meant that False Creek’s water level was 4m higher in the 19th century. Say it ain’t so!

  • David

    False creek shore was up to 4m lower? (Figure 3) http://www.btaworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/BTAworks_Local-Effects-of-Global-Climate-Change-Community-Toolkit-and-Atlas_FINAL.pdf

  • gman

    OH MY run for your lives!!!!! http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_global_station.shtml?stnid=822-071

  • David

    I’m actually equally skeptical, gman. I’d be more concerned about the Cascadia quake…. though it’s only been 312 years since January 26, 1700. We should be good..

    “Local Indigenous American oral traditions describing a large quake also exist, although these do not specify the date”

    (Perhaps they did make note of the date, it just didn’t refer to Janus, or Jesus)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1700_Cascadia_earthquake#Future_threats

  • gman

    David I agree we are faced with things like earthquakes that are based on much better science and plans should be in place to deal with these realities instead of wasting money on scary modeled projections.North Carolina just passed a law,and rightly so,to wait four years and do more research rather than blindly go ahead with very expensive projects and laws that would have a negative effect on them financially. Its got a lot of attention from comedians and enviro groups, but it really is a more level headed approach. http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2012/aug/02/2/wsmet01-new-law-temporarily-bans-use-of-science-pa-ar-2487728/