Like most Vancouverites, I don’t usually go to Granville Street at 4 a.m.
But I did a couple of months ago, to find out how things have evolved on this street with such a roller-coaster past — Great White Way, theatre row, heroin users’ hood, sex-shop central, home to some of the city’s best live-music venues, bus route, clubland.
It was a scene, for sure. The two middle-aged women from Penticton who trailed after me for part of the evening were open-mouthed with astonishment at the party, the police wagons, the gang-squad cops, the general alcohol-fuelled mayhem. It’s a testament to how tame the city is, in many ways, that they merrily struck up conversations with various inebriated youngsters in my vicinity.
But they’re a rarity. Most people over 25 simply avoid the area — and that has even club owners’ worried, along with planners, police, and more as I found when I decided to write a story about it. But Granville is a unique Vancouver problem. In other cities, the solution might be to spread out the clubs.
But this city is so crammed with residential that it’s hard to find a place where noisy bars can go without provoking a rash of homeowner complaints. (And it doesn’t seem to matter whether the bar was there first. The Biltmore is going through a fresh round of griping from people who have moved into the new building next door, apparently unaware there was a club next door.)
34 responses so far ↓
1 Maudlin // Apr 5, 2013 at 2:19 pm
This has everything to do with the type of venues which dominate the Granville strip. I, along with my friends and acquaintances, have zero interest in visiting any of them. They typically attract the tough guy ‘ganxta wannabe’ types (…yes, often from the suburbs for a “big night out)”. They play aggressive thumpa thumpa music and appear to want to intimidate everyone around them. The women wear oversized fake eyelashes. It is not fun. It is embarrassing; visiting tourists are often shocked and dismayed.
The Granville Strip is not my, or any normal adult’s idea of interesting or healthy nightlife. I am interested in music, culture and unusual, more spontaneous spaces and venues. I have ranted about there being serious lack of this type of thing in this city (…yes, the Waldorf was one of the few. I am sorry to bring it up).
The larger issue is the overall inability of the city and the province to understand, endorse multi-use venues and interesting spaces (though thankfully the city has been making efforts to change this). However look no further than the Rio Theatre escapade (…also the Rickshaw and a long laundry list of similar stories).
The major culprit for this state of affairs is an unaccountable liquor bureaucracy and unnecessary licensing regulations but also a history of very restrictive zoning in Vancouver. Ask anyone trying to operate a live music venue.
As for better neighbourhood spaces: I also question the complaints process – it would seem to me that the single most curmudgeonly, anti-social person in your neighbour can complain, notify an inspector who will come enforce some unexpected and antiquated regulation.
2 rph // Apr 5, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Another reason why this area fails as a viable and attractive entertainment district is the lack of late night transit. I guess the city would rather keep the revelers on the street going “woo hoo” whilst waiting for a taxi, than move them promptly on their way home.
(I know, the City does not set transit timetables, but they sure are not advocating strongly for later skytrains and buses)
3 Higgins // Apr 5, 2013 at 5:11 pm
What a joke… on all of us.
“…low-rent Mardi Gras by night accompanied by police, ambulances, clean-up crews. Is this is good idea?”
There’s no such a thing as “low-rent” when “taxpayers” are paying (read subsidizing) for police, ambulance, clean-up in… $$$ “overtime rates”
Way I see it, just like with the bike lanes… the majority is paying so that the minority can inebriate till morning and with some luck get laid behind one of those ‘green” dumpsters.
Just great!
4 David W. // Apr 5, 2013 at 5:38 pm
I really wish common sense could prevail around venues near housing.
I used to live in a quiet building on a side street on the quiet side of the big 4th Avenue hill in Kits. It was a fantastic neighbourhood and I could walk to pretty much anything. My place was a little more than one block from Darby’s Pub and there was usually some noise after closing time. I had no expectation of complete quiet and neither did my neighbours. You buy within staggering distance of a pub you expect to be disturbed occasionally. Just as ignorance of the law is no defence, ignorance of the neighbourhood you moved into isn’t either.
I can already hear the complaints from Marine Gateway buyers who didn’t realize that living beside a transfer station and compost facility might generate some unpleasant odours. I have zero sympathy for anyone who didn’t bother to do any research on their future home. Visiting the neighbourhood seems to be too much effort for this era of global purchasing, but 10 seconds with Google Maps shows quite clearly what’s next door.
5 DW // Apr 5, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Some people have clearly forgotten that they were once young. I guess everyone was drinking single malt scotch or Bourdeaux at age 19?
I personally don’t like what has happened on the Granville Strip, but young people will be young people and if mommy and daddy won’t give up their basements for a night of debauchery, then they gotta go out and get theirs somewhere. YOLO (is the motto)!
6 Joe Just Joe // Apr 5, 2013 at 8:53 pm
Living in the middle of another strip of bars of clubs I can say with confidence that the issue residents hate isn’t the noise emitting from the clubs themselves, it’s from the d-bags out on the street waiting to get into the clubs or walking between them. I still don’t have any greys so I’m not some old geezer but for the life of me I can’t figure out why our youth can’t seem to have a good time out w/o trying to make as much noise as they can in the process. I do not care that it’s your bday and neither does anyone else that lives d/t. Come have fun, eat, drink, dance, get laid and just shut up.
7 Silly Season // Apr 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm
In the name of research, and being part of that cohort over 25 yrs of age (just barely) I will be attending something/place called ‘The Vancouver FanClub’ on the storied Granville Mall strip to see a soul/funk band next weekend.
I will navigate the rivers of vomit, fight my way past MMA wannabes and generally surf the wave of hunky uniformed first responders to file an EXCLUSIVE report here on BulaBlog on my experiences in the DMZ.
Of course this means I will have to stay up beyond my usual 9pm curfew. And it will likely involve some sort of imbibing of the liquorious kind. And dancing. Don’t forget the dancing….
The things I do for you people!!
8 Silly Season // Apr 5, 2013 at 10:41 pm
PS
I am seeing ‘Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds’ tomorrow night.
But that alone doesn’t make me a hipster.
Does it???!!!
9 Threadkiller // Apr 6, 2013 at 12:29 am
@Silly Season #8:
It makes you a hipster who can afford/justify the $75 ticket price, which is the only reason I won’t be there (cue gnashing of teeth).
However, I did pay $30 to see Dave Alvin at FanClub in February– and was happy to do so: I never miss him when he’s in town. Also spent $50 on CDs at the merch table. All a question of priorities , I guess. Oddly-designed venue; if you want to just watch, try to nab a space on the narrow balcony for the best view of the stage; where you’re gonna dance I don’t know.
Happy to report, incidentally, that I survived the trek into the combat zone. Heayy rain kept the sidewalks clear of the usual puke and blood that night. I walked home without incident.
Think I’ll now go and fondle the ticket stub from the Jimi Hendrix concert I attended in 1968– the one that says $3.50 on it…
10 gman // Apr 6, 2013 at 12:42 am
Threadkiller,
You are experienced.Xcus me while I kiss the sky.
11 gman // Apr 6, 2013 at 12:52 am
Forgot the link,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK8N6DjJccc
12 Chris Keam // Apr 6, 2013 at 8:50 am
Gabor Mate’s book ‘Hold on to Your Kids’ offers some worthwhile insights into the culture of aggression that is commonplace nowadays. As for the drinking, the patrons of the ‘Entertainment District’ are largely acting out the war stories they’ve grown up hearing their parents tell at parties about their salad days and consuming a judgment-impairing substance in pretty much exactly the manner they see advertised.
But it’s not callow youth writing, producing, and approving those ads is it? The owners of the bars who over-serve aren’t in their mid-20s either amirite?
The reality is that our society has thrown these kids to the wolves and now we are whinging because we have to hose out the wild animal enclosure at the end of the feeding frenzy.
13 spartikus // Apr 6, 2013 at 9:54 am
Does anyone remember when it was decided to make the Granville strip into Daytona Beach at Spring Break? I have vague memories of a public discussion that we needed to emulate something similar “in Calgary”.
14 Silly Season // Apr 6, 2013 at 9:57 am
@Threadkiller #9
Yep. But it’s the first concert of the year so if I ammortize that $75 over 4 months…
Nick isn’t playing at Vancouver FanClub. That’s my venue for next week. Never been, but friends have been to concerts there, and like it. Thanks—will look for good sightline.
@Chris Keam
I don’t disagree re: bar owners. If kids showing up drunk or they are over-serving, then a good deal of this rests on them.
I certainly remember drunks in my ‘salad days’. What I don’t recall is the sheer numbers of them, as evidenced by Gran Mall, all corraled in one big play pen.
I think a breast-plate under my chemise will be de rigeur…
15 Cheezwiz // Apr 6, 2013 at 12:28 pm
Interesting article. While I’m not crotchety and old, I personally dread having to navigate Granville on a weekend night. It’s pure chaos, nothing but hollering meat-heads in fist-fights and ditzy girls tottering around in high-heels.
I hated it back in my university days when I worked at the Capitol Six and it was a sleazy thoroughfare for sex shops and druggies, and I hate it now.
I wish the City (and Province with it’s doofy antiquated liquor laws) recognized that many people love live venues & music, but they don’t necessarily want to be corralled into a small area with drunken frat kids and suburban gangsta wannabes.
I guess the idea to install a pedestrian mall in the 70′s killed Granville Street, and no other incarnation has been able to revive it since. It’s a complete dead-zone during the daytime, with no decent food (save for the Templeton diner) and no interesting stores.
People who purchase condos next to pre-existing music venues also get absolutely no sympathy from me. I am worried about the fate of the Yale (one of the oldest buildings in Vancouver) once it re-opens. How long do you think it will be before the residents in the shiny new tower next-door start complaining about the noise?
16 spartikus // Apr 6, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Heh…
T. Boddy, VSun 22 Oct 2002
And…
D. Ward. VSun 04 Apr 1997
17 Threadkiller // Apr 6, 2013 at 3:44 pm
@spartikus # 13:
I sometimes have trouble remembering dates of events that didn’t happen to me personally, so I can’t say for sure when the decision to transform Granville into what was laughably called the “Entertainment District” was made. I do recall, however, that when that term first began to be bandied about there were still theatres operating on Granville, and in a fit of the utmost naiveté possible I envisioned real-estate-brochure-style images of throngs of happy people; couples, kids, families, all partaking in innocent fun as they partook of “entertainment”– movies, concerts, street theatre and formal theatre, jugglers, puppet shows, strolling minstrels, marching bands, clowns, food carts family-oriented restaurants, and diverse, unique, and interesting shops; whatever one’s subjective understanding of the term might be, both during the day and in the evenings.
Boy howdy, was I one naive shmuck, or what?? I never anticipated that our beloved planners were envisioning a five-block-long combination of vomitorium, meat rack and gladitorial arena. I guess I lack vision, because what was created down there was very far indeed from almost every working definition of “entertainment” I’ve ever encountered. I like my concept a whole lot better.
The Calgary district you’re thinking of was known in the early 90s– the last time I was in Cowdungtown– as Electric Avenue (thank you, Eddy Grant). It was located on 11th Avenue SW, just south of downtown. There are many cities that have “Electric Avenues”; I explored the original Electric Avenue in Brixton, London, last October, and it was immeasurably more interesting and culturally diverse than its Calgary namesake, which indeed could have served as a prototype for the execrable Vancouver strip. I once drove along Calgary’s Electric Avenue, on a Friday night, and the scene resembled one of the lower circles of Hell.
Interestingly, the powers that be in Calgary obviously have a good deal more common sense than their Vancouver counterparts — or were at least willing to admit that their grand exercise in social engineering was a frickin’ disaster– so much so that Electric Avenue was deemed unworkable in the early 90s, largely shut down, and later replaced with something called the “Red Mile”, on 17th Avenue SW (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Mile for part of the story). Judging by Calgary online media, it is still common, when referring to problematic drinking establishments, or districts containing same, in Calgary, to invoke the dreaded name of “Electric Avenue” to cite a negative example. Perhaps one day in Vancouver the term “Entertainment District” will be used to frighten young, recalcitrant planners into toeing the line.
Ha! I should live so long. At least the 50-foot statue of a fiercely grinning Blaine Culling clutching wads of large-denomination bills has never materialized… perhaps I only imagined it.
18 lowermainlander // Apr 6, 2013 at 5:18 pm
A good retail/entertainment street has a well balanced mix that attracts a variety of customers day and evening. In that sense, Granville street between Robson and Drake is not that successful. Too much of one thing on on street is not something a private developer would do in a mater planned community, so why did Vancouver planners do just the opposite.
Most good retail streets are a 5 minute walk long; about 400m. The Granville Street experience is almost 1km long. Too long for a single theme/use.
19 Cheezwiz // Apr 6, 2013 at 7:54 pm
@Threadkiller #17
LOL! I had to laugh at the description in your post, because my imaginings when I first heard about an “entertainment” district were almost identical. I
I can’t remember when I first heard talk of this in the media, but I remember visions of an all-ages funtopia dancing in my head.
Who knew that movie theatres would be practically obsolete within a few years.
We are still no-fun city. Thank goodness for reliable old-timer venues like the Commodore & Railway Club, along with newer places like the Rickshaw, Electric Owl & Biltmore.
20 Terry M // Apr 6, 2013 at 8:30 pm
Thread killer, chez wiz, LOL!
21 Threadkiller // Apr 6, 2013 at 9:49 pm
Cheezwiz:
I share your concerns about the fate of the Yale. Once it reopens (assuming it ever does), the soundproofing and outside crowd control is going to have to be absolutely state-of-the-art– otherwise the affluent new arrivals upstairs will be screaming nightly for the gendarmes and daily to their favourite councillor(s), demanding that the operation be shut down. Perhaps the Yale will have to re-open as a tea salon specializing in unamplified acoustic music only in order to be allowed to continue in that location.
The Yale’s management has, of course, now opened FanClub in the 1000-block Granville, both as a new venture and for those suffering from Yale withdrawal symptoms, and Ron, the brilliant freelance talent booker who brought most of the “name” out-of-town blues and roots acts into the Yale over the years is doing the same, when possible, at FanClub (most recently, Dave Alvin). Long may he, and they, continue. (Of course, eventually somebody will build condos nearby and the whole scenario will repeat itself…)
22 Cheezwiz // Apr 7, 2013 at 1:59 am
@Threadkiller,
Did not realize the Yale folks were behind FanClub (a venue I have not visited). Good for them – I know it takes tremendous fortitude to attempt any kind of live music venue in the city.
I hope they are successful, and that the Yale will live on unmolested by condo nimbys.
I also hope Silly Season survives the big weekend excursion to Granville!
23 teririch // Apr 7, 2013 at 1:12 pm
Several months back, on a Tuesday night, I was attending a conference downtown.
After it finished I walked to catch a bus home at Granville and Davie St.
Across the street is a bar. This young guy comes out, stands in front of a truck that was parked on the sidewalk – is smoking. Suddenly he pukes, sucks on his ciggy again, pukes again, one more drag on the ciagrette and back into the bar.
Both myself and the other persons at the stop (this was around 9:30 pm) were gagging.
Lovely. Absolutely a charming picture.
24 teririch // Apr 7, 2013 at 1:21 pm
@David W. #4
I live in the same neighborhood and the Naam is the worse offender of the two.
Partially because it is open 24 hours a day s0 1) you get the after bar crowd which could careless if they yell,scream, blast music as they come and go 2) get people out for late night walks with their dogs and leave them tied up out from so that the dogs sit and cry or bark 3) during the warm weather, the staff leave the entrance door open so you get to hear whatever music they are blasting inside.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve called through or walked over and chatted with mangement. I know various strat councils inthe area have sent letters. Complaints go nowhere. They seem oblivious to the idea of being a good neighbor.
And the best part – I am vegetarian and will not spend a nickle there.
25 Everyman // Apr 7, 2013 at 8:34 pm
Like most posters apparently, I rarely visit the Granville strip. Its totally geared to the consumption of alcohol and like any single use area is boring. Somewhat ironic that the heyday of the street’s pedestrian life came in the 1930-50s along with the automobile and neon. Now not a single theatre left.
A timely reminder after Art Phillips’ recent death that the Granville Mall was one of TEAM’s misfires, for whatever reason. (BTW, was I the only one irked by the obituaries saying Phillips was the one who brought high density downtown living to Vancouver? He definitely was a good mayor, but the wholesale redevelopment of the West End was far more a creation of the NPA and Tom Campbell. I associate the south shore of False Creek much more with Phillips and TEAM.)
26 Roger Kemble // Apr 8, 2013 at 9:20 am
Everyman @ # 25 “( . . . He definitely was a good mayor,” {Alderman Harry Rankin would not have agreed!} . . . ” but the wholesale redevelopment of the West End was far more a creation of the NPA and Tom Campbell. I associate the south shore of False Creek much more with Phillips and TEAM.)”
In my recollection it was director of planning Ray Spaxman, a creation of TEAM, who started the inexorable expansion of towers in the West End: Ray claimed, (“Phillips was the one who brought high density downtown living to Vancouver?“), it to be the most densely populated urban area in the world.
I do not share the current opinion of Mayor Phillip’s tenure. Indeed it was TEAM that encouraged Vancouver to deindustrialize.
Hilda Symons, then planning commission chair thru most of TEAM’s tenure, coined the term, Executive City (thanqxz Bill Mc), without any follow thru resulting in the empty shell Vancouver has become with nothing to offer the world other than raw material for off-shore real estate speculators.
27 Kenji // Apr 8, 2013 at 10:11 am
@24 Teri
That is hilarious – well not for you, I am not laughing at you. But it was a perspective that I as not expecting. The NAAM is wicked! (My son will agree – deplores vegetables in general – yet steals nearly half of my Gold Dragon Bowl, why?)
As for the Granville Strip as currently constituted, it reminds me of the adult-only area of Disney World where it is New Year’s Eve every night. For those who enjoy drinking until they spew, why they are unloading a lot of dollars (and spew) and the area is now shiny with refurbished buildings.
I would like them to prefer to listen calmly to Mozart while sipping tea with their little fingers well out, but, whatevs.
Frances, tell us more about the Biltmore. It might be the coolest bar in town – not that I know much about bars, but it has interesting music and novelty acts.
28 Roger Kemble // Apr 8, 2013 at 10:12 am
PS As for Granville Mall it has never been a mature civic mall right from the start.
I am not so quick to condemn the Friday/Saturday night kids fromliving it up as the only outlet for their frustrations.
When I was their age I was drafted into HM navy as a way to keep us off the streets.
The UK, then, was a bereft of opportunity as Vancouver is now.
29 Silly Season // Apr 8, 2013 at 10:33 am
@Cheezwiz #22
I hope I survive next weekend, too.
I’m sure I’ll be fine. Once my hearing and sense of smell returns (see Nick Cave show reviews).
Great show, tho. Didn’t stay on Granville Mall long enough Saturday to see denizens of the (late) night. But will, soon!
30 Frank Ducote // Apr 8, 2013 at 2:55 pm
I believe upzoning of the West End started under Tom Campbell, who also attempted to do the same to Kitsilano, as a couple of older towers there can testify. Spaxman actually downzoned the West End , rather amazing when you think about it, given today’s STIR initiatives.
31 Threadkiller // Apr 8, 2013 at 3:09 pm
Tom Campbell was a developer by profession, so upzoning came naturally to him. Perhaps his most visible development remaining is the large three-winged apartment tower at the south end of the Burrard Bridge, which was built some years before he took office. I’m sure it would have made him very happy if the whole of Kitsilano could have been rebuilt with that kind of density.
32 Brian // Apr 10, 2013 at 11:35 am
I did a stint as a bike-rickshaw driver a few years ago, and bars on Granville are our bread and butter. I only say this to point out that I’ve spent many hours trawling up and down the strip, chatting with its denizens, while cold sober. I think this is unique perspective.
First off, there’s a lot of blaming young people here. While 19 year olds are plentiful, the demographic goes into the 30s. At 23, I felt young. Its not as simple as saying its all kids causing this mayhem.
Second is the violence. Fights are nightly, with larger brawls also common. There was one regular on the strip who always walked around with a cane. One night I saw the cops confiscate it. It had a sword in it.
Third is the non-Vancouverites. Almost every person I spoke to was from Surrey, New West, Richmond, North Van, or was in town on vacation.
This is a perfect example of the dangers of a single-use area. Its been allowed to grow into a little adult playground with little variety. It could use a Gastown-ization, with fancy bars and restaurants as well as good old pubs and club cohabitate. As a rickshaw driver, it was the place to pick up a ride that was nice to you, and usually a Vancouverite.
33 Frances Bula // Apr 10, 2013 at 4:59 pm
@Brian. Gee, I wish I had talked to you for my story. I saw a rickshaw driver going back and forth — should have realized you would have long-term perspective.
34 Brian // Apr 29, 2013 at 1:38 pm
@Francis. I’m touched. In the future, I think you get my email address via my posts here- feel free to drop a line. I only did a summer as a rickshaw driver so I can only boast a sober view on the strip. For a longer term view, you could talk to Patrick who runs Cruise Cab (phone number on the website).
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