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Europeans enter another tower into Vancouver office surge downtown

September 25th, 2011 · 47 Comments

Much buzz among the commercial-building crowd about the entry of Credit Suisse/Swissreal Investments into Vancouver’s downtown office scene with a proposal for the 800 West Pender block. (My Globe story here.) The proposal gets its public launch tomorrow.

With three towers already approaching construction (University Club site on Hastings by Oxford, 745 Thurlow at Thurlow and Alberni by Bentall, and Telus Gardens on Georgia), and a few more hovering (Pattison’s mixed use project on Burrard, Aquilini’s tower by Rogers Arena), it really feels as though Vancouver is on the move.

This has to make the Visionistas happy, though the tower boom doesn’t have that much to do with any policies they’ve instituted. Possibly Telus was helped along by being able to work out a deal to buy the city parking lot on the block, but other towers appear to me to be the result of  pent-up demand in an unusually long cycle between building.

As Brent Toderian explained when I was researching this story (and another one that will appear in Tuesday’s Globe), commercial building doesn’t work the way residential does. Condos get built at a steady pace all the time. Offices get built in cycles, with a bunch coming on at once and then nothing for several years while tenants resort and absorb all the new space. That’s why it’s dangerous to assume that just because no offices get built for five or six years that it’s okay to release space for other uses.

Vancouver’s cycle this time was exceptionally long. The last tower to go up was the PriceWaterhouseCoopers one on Cordova, which opened in 2003. The only other big chunk of space after that was the top half of Bentall V, which opened in 2007. People blamce city policy, which allowed a couple of office sites (Shangri-La, Hudson) to become condos, wreaking havoc with land prices throughout the CBD.

That wasn’t the only factor, though, as I’ll explain in Tuesday’s story.

On a final note, I know it’s utterly childish, but I love hearing about new buildings going up that aren’t condos. Libraries, office towers,concert halls, community centres, you name it. That’s because they are usually so much more interesting. Condo developers often build buildings the way realtors prep houses — bland, nothing too offbeat that might put off a potential buyer.

Office towers, on the other hand, are often built to convey a distinctive corporate image. The towers being planned in this cycle are aiming for super-green and they’ve all got architectural flair, from the look of renderings so far.

None of us can bring a single New York condo building to the mind’s eye, I’m sure. But we do remember their great commercial towers, those present and those that have been erased.

 

Categories: Uncategorized

  • Julia

    This is more about Canada being a great safe haven for international folks holding Euro’s in a collapsing economy than Vancouver being the new hotbed of business opportunities.

  • rf

    So when I read that it was going to be LEED platinum….was I the only one that immediately thought, “so the building is going to be operationally dysfunctional and a pain in the neck for the first 10 years?”

  • spartikus

    Renderings here.

    Except for the grass growing up the side, looks like another generic glass tower to me.

  • spartikus

    Although I note we seem to be entering the Blade Runner phase of urban development of building structures on top of older structures 😉

  • Silly Season

    @Julia #1 Suspect you’re right about that- or perhaps they have heard about all th Lamvoughinis and maseratis the kids are driving?

    @spartikus #3 Interesting. Earthquake motif? 😉

  • Tiktaalik

    I’m skeptical about the green foliage on the side. The Woodwards flatiron has a similar idea, with planters of some climbing plant (probably ivy) at various intervals and you can tell that the intention is that it’s supposed to climb up the orange parts of that building, but it doesn’t appear to have been much of a success.

    Is there an existing example of this working elsewhere in the world?

  • Mike

    Any word whether or not Credit Suisse will be opening an office in their building or simply renting it out?

  • Agustin

    @ Tiktaalik: http://www.google.ca/search?q=ivy+covered+buildings&hl=en&tbm=isch&biw=1340&bih=1079

  • Glissando Remmy

    The Thought Of The Day

    ‘When The Real Europeans will completely $$$ default in a few years, followed or preceded by Russia, the ‘chosen ones’ may be in dire need to have their monies secure… close to New York’s Wallstreet but as far away from the Greek, Basque and Gaul peasant fury. Now, the more you think of it, Hollyhock makes sense as the next highly gated, retirement kibbutz for bankers and investment sharks.’

    The only problem. The Earth is round. And they could be reached from the other side… Duh!
    Anyhoo.
    In all fairness, I think Credit Suisse is more interested in the Basement and the Vault Suites and not in the Tower itself. Plus, now that they have the confirmation that a 1Billion dollars in PR & Tourism damages to the city and after more than three months after Robertson’s Riot no one has been in the least inconvenienced and the cherry on top of the cake, all of the major City Hall, Council and VPD chiefs incompetents kept their jobs. So… it’s looking Suisse… for Credit, eh!

    Maybe would have been a good idea to do some research before drumming this non-story into the news. Start here:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2011/05/concentrated_fury

    Continue with the Bank robbing of Argentina, when truckloads of cash were moved under heavy security out of the country, in the middle of the night. Credit Suisse at the trough indeed. But this story might be too much for this blog…
    Anyway, this is in no means good news, this banks only move to places where they can corrupt, speculate and rip major profits from the unsuspecting partners. Period.
    Here:
    (en.mercopress.com/2010/04/28/banks-serving-rich-argentines-moving-from-bs.-as.-to-miami-and-montevideo)

    As Solomon says in his speech, “if you can’t do it in places like [Vancouver] we have a real problem.”…ha, ha, ha

    Not everyone is a born sucker, you know.

    We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

  • David Hadaway

    New York has some wonderful condo buildings, the Dakota came immediately to mind and there are plenty more to be seen just walking around the perimeter of Central Park.

    The fractured, unstable appearance of the building – the brash new structure, apparently mouldering and splitting apart while arrogantly but precariously mounting the remains of the old – seems highly symbolic of the current phase of capitalism.

  • rf

    They are not moving here. It’s simply a pension/Reit making building an income investment.
    The only major international investment firm with a trading desk is Morgan Stanley. That’s only because they were able to talk a bunch of Vancouver grown Powerex guys into jumping ship and having an energy trading desk here.

  • Ron

    WRT ivy – I think the difficulty is having it grow up a steel trellis, rather than on a brick or concrete wall (which retains moisture).
    The best local example of an ivy covered concrete wall was (and will soon regrow) is the west-facing wall at BC Place Stadium – and that was long before the eco-trendy”green wall”.

  • Julia

    no jobs created beyond construction. We still need to find companies to lease the space. Wonder if the Leeds Standard will work any better than the Olympic Village. I would sure be nervous signing a triple net lease in a building with mystery operating costs.

  • Tiktaalik

    @Agustin 8

    I think there’s a significant difference between ivy growing from the ground up a 4-6 story building and something that will grow on a skyscraper.

    I’m curious if it’s been accomplished at the skyscraper scale.

  • brilliant

    Tom Campbell’s apartment building on Chestnut ar the West side of the Burrard Bridge has had ivy growing up its multistory sides for years. Who knew Tom Terrific was such a green visionary! 🙂

  • Tessa

    As always, a leader in Vancouver is still a laggard internationally, even regionally: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/design/2011/09/oregon-sustainability-center/197/

    http://fresh-energy.org/2011/09/is-seattle-home-to-the-greenest-building-on-earth/

    Fact is, LEED isn’t the best measure anymore, and our neighbours have much bigger dreams for green projects. The Seattle building will be, if built to plans, twice as energy efficient as this new Vancouver building will need to be to meet LEED platinum.

    So much for greenest city in the world.

  • Max

    @Julia #13:

    No jobs…that can’t be right.

    Councilor Meggs has been all over the news touting all the new ‘green’ jobs this venture will bring. (I am unsure at what point in time construction or office jobs, became green jobs.)

    Visit his website….’green jobs’.

  • Julia

    Until a brand new business license moves into that building there is no ‘new green job’. What happens if the tenant is BP! What happens if the tenant is Suncor? Are those green jobs?

    Is the construction process ‘green’… or is the finished product ‘green’? I don’t know about you, but I am still trying to find that first green job. LOL.

    Also, this ivy conversation has me a little amused.

    I grew up in a glass stucco house built in the 50’s. Every year my Dad would be out there ripping off the ivy off the exterior of the house so it would not destroy the stucco and the moisture barrier. No matter how many times he tried to kill it… it would be back.

    Now I am hearing that we WANT to have ivy?

  • Phanyxx

    I love hearing about new office towers going up downtown. It just makes sense.

    While I agree that most of the downtown condos are relatively bland, there are some more visually exciting condos being build in South False Creek. Opsal, James, and Central come to mind. I think developers are starting to realise that people are tired of nondescript glass towers. Hooray!

  • Michael Geller

    Frances, you are right…the office market is extremely cyclical with years of famine followed by a couple of years of feast…and then more famine.

    While I’m happy to see all these buildings coming forward, I don’t think anyone should suggest for a moment that they are the result of the city’s policy to exclude residential in the downtown. If this was true, why is there such a huge residential tower being built along with the Telus office building?

    As for the concern about a LEED platinum office building not performing…don’t worry about it. There are significant differences between the mechanical systems of an office building and an apartment building, as well as the other features that might warrant LEED platinum.

    Ironically, it’s the growing market demand for more sustainable office buildings that is in part responsible for the current flock of buildings. The average office building in the downtown is now approximately 25 years old, and these buildings do not have the features progressive tenants are seeking.

    The building that intrigues me the most is the Oxford tower on the University Club site, right next to the Marine Building. (Well, actually jammed right up next to the Marine Building!)

    While I suspect few people in the city even know it’s coming, they’ll sure know when it’s here. It will dramatically alter the view of the Marine Building, one of the city’s most beloved structures, from many angles.

    And as for ivy…in my opinion, some of the best and oldest ivy is on the Sylvia Hotel. (Especially since Tom Campbell’s building has now been denuded.) If you haven’t looked at it for a while, drive by.

    And while you’re at it, take a good look at Richard Henriquez’s condo tower next door. It defies Frances’ suggestion that condo towers are boring. It is one of Vancouver’s best buildings.

    If you’ll look carefully you’ll see one half mimics the historic facades of the hotel, and the other is a completely modern building. And yes, Jack Poole did live in the prism like penthouse on top.

    Compare this to the integration of the Credit Suisse tower with the former Stock Exchange building. In my opinion, no comparison!

  • Michael Geller

    Sorry, I should have said drive by….or walk by….or cycle by the Sylvia Hotel. (I guess I’m just stuck in my old way of thinking!)

  • Barb Justason

    Grateful to learn that any new office space is opening up in Vancouver. If the residential and hotel trend continues, Downtown Vancouver will resemble a resort, rather than a centre for business.

  • Wendy

    This is a lot of office space all at once. Back in 2002-3 Bentall V and PWC both opened, adding about 500,000 s.f. to the downtown market. It took about 5 years to absorb all that extra space. The 3-4 new towers proposed right now would be about 1 million square feet.

    Vancouver has few office tenants who take more than 15,000 s.f. so there will be a lot of deals to do (brokers will like this). But it may also push down rents, particularly in the older buildings–not good for existing owners (cdn pension funds, mostly) at least in the short run. In the long run, extra office space downtown may attract some new business to the area and even to the metro area, which will benefit many.

    Oh, and LEED for office buildings is pretty standard stuff these days. It works. We just haven’t seen it in Vancouver because it’s been 10 years since an office tower went up (I believe some buildings at Broadway Tech Centre are LEED gold, however).

    For example, in Toronto 18 York, which opened last week, is LEED Gold and I believe the Telus tower next door is also LEED Silver or Gold.

  • Frank Ducote

    I’m happy to see the “living first” practice of past decades seems to be behind us, at least for this construction cycle. While it created many condos, it also led to the pre-emption of many prime business sites for residential use.

    The moratorium the Planning Department put on residential development (and office to residential conversions) in the CBD some years back took a while to take effect, but it seems like the market, and developers, have gotten the message that there needs to be employment as well or downtown could be a ghost town during working hours. Office jobs shuold also help the small businesses, cafes and restaurant that need regular customers.

    I also fervently hope that floor space can be absorbed, as has been noted by others above.

    One last note: Frances – Frank Gehry’s new rental (!!) tower in Lower Manhattan at the Brooklyn Bridge head is a most specatcular building, certainly the best of that typology Manhattan has seen for many decades. A must-see if you’re in the ‘hood.

  • Roger Kemble

    Julia @ #1This is more about Canada being a great safe haven for international folks holding Euro’s in a collapsing economy than Vancouver being the new hotbed of business opportunities . . . ” Currency hedging opos . . . you goddit!

    Tiktaalik @ #6I’m skeptical about the green foliage on the side. Jeezless, is that all you have to worry about!

    David Hadaway @ #10The fractured, unstable appearance of the building – the brash new structure, apparently mouldering and splitting apart while arrogantly but precariously mounting the remains of the old – seems highly symbolic of the current phase of capitalism.” Semiotics don’t lie!

    Tessa @ #16Fact is, LEED isn’t the best measure anymore” . . . absofukkinlutely!

    As an architect of a recent award winning 65-unit condo we abandoned LEED corporate marketing nonsense after watching our envelope consultant conduct a preliminary window test . . .

    Phanyxx @ # 19I love hearing about new office towers going up downtown.

    Me too! I love the smell of sweating paper shufflers in the morning!

    Michael @ #20 Frances, you are right . . . . . . ah yes, always an attendant lord . . .

    . . . one that will do
    To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
    Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
    Deferential, glad to be of use, 115
    Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
    Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
    At times, indeed, almost ridiculous—
    Almost, at times, the Fool.

    Frank Ducote @ #24 Ah yes, first it was resort city, Beasley spouting Eco density . . . now it’s . . . Try this Frank . . .

    https://circle.ubc.ca/bitstream/handle/2429/24822/PlaceImageVancouver.pdf?sequence=1

    Where were you when the nonsense went down?

  • Mira

    rf #11

    I read Credit Suisse is looking up wards of building a 200 millions dollars tower in Vancouver. Here to stay and as

    Glissando Remmy #9 said:
    “banks only move to places where they can corrupt, speculate and rip major profits from the unsuspecting partners. Period.”

    Also Roger kemble #25, he gets it too.

    Again “Not everyone is a born sucker, you know.”
    Neither am I.
    I am really glad to see there are still people with their intelligence intact out there.

  • rf

    Mira, when you have (also) spent 15 years analyzing the operations of global financial companies, feel free to advise me what’s going on here.

    We all bring out expertise (along with our biased and unbiased opinions) to this forum.

    I was simply trying to enlighten you in an area that you appear to not understand.

    See that tower with the big Scotia logo on it. Guess what, Scotia didn’t build it (I think the Ontario Teachers Pension plan did…).

    Banks do a lot more than just cash your HST cheque.

  • rf

    writing that kind of made me realize how funny it is to see some of the left wing rants about global investment companies on this site.

    Ironically, 3 of the biggest players on the Canadian field are;

    Ontario Teachers Pension Plan
    OMERS (Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement Plan)
    CPP (Canada Pension Plan)

    These institutions are as sophisticated, respective, large, and active as anyone in global capital markets…..but the same folks who draw benefits from them like to throw arrows at institutions involved in global investment.

    The funniest of all is when the NDP’ers attack “the banks” about screwing “working people” with fees.

    The biggest shareholders (and beneficiaries of the profit stream) of Canadian Banks are CPP and the Pension plans of the major union workforces and pensioners!

    It’s pure comedy.

  • Roger Kemble

    I hoperf @ #28 you are not accusing me in your “ . . . left wing rants about global investment companies on this site.

  • Ron

    Yeah, Ontario Teachers Pension Plan owns Cadillac Fairview, which owns Pacific Centre (and the various office towers there), HSBC Building and PWC Place.
    OMERS owns Oxford Properties.

  • rf

    No, not you. That’s more directed at the CUPE rank and file taking their hourly mandated coffee breaks perusing this site.

  • Rory Gylander

    @rf You sound like a bright guy, why do you hide behind an alias?

  • Bobbie Bees

    Frances, just one thing with your observation. the PWC Building at Cordova and howe may have been the last complete building to go up, however the Bell Building (Bentall 5) was the last building to be completed. The low rise portion ( 1-22) was finished off and occupied in 2002. Bentall held off on finishing the high rise portion (22-35) of the tower until the market improved around 2007.
    Am i a geek or what?

  • Frances Bula

    @Bobbie — I do keep repeating that in every story. PWC last stand-alone tower to go up in 2003; second half of Bentall V completed in 2007. You are a geek. So am I.

  • rf

    @ Rory – because I do not need my real name and my opinions about civic and political issues attached to every google search of my name by clients or potential clients.

    I believe that would be disrespectful to my employer as well. Big bad Bank may or may not agree with me, but a google search of my name attaches me to them just the same.

    With CUPE, it’s pratically a badge of honor among your peers to be the one who publically tells your employer to suck it.

    In the private sector, we get fired or fined.

  • spartikus

    I’m sorry, which “left wing rants” against “Global Investment Companies” are you talking about?

    I see one from Glissando Remmy, but I hadn’t realized he/she was a CUPE member.

  • rf

    @36 – guilty. definetely some hyperbole on my part in relation to comments on this specific post.

    Mira used Gilly’s rant to make her statement. There’s a few in the globe comments related to Frances’ story as well. My mind mushed them together.

  • Wendy

    rf – good job and important point, explaining that building office towers in major cities tends to be done by pension funds, and other funds (REITs, segregated funds, etc.) looking for a safe, long term investment with a reliable cash flow.

    Whether Canadian, German, Swiss or Australian that’s what they are doing. Most Canadian pension funds have about 10-15% of their assets in investment real estate. It’s a hedge against inflation with a steady cash flow if managed properly and you have the right portfolio and locations.

    Many pension funds also have an SRI (socially responsible investing) mandate, which comes from their stakeholders. Building green office towers in downtowns well served by transit, bike lanes and walkability suits this vision as well.

    The banks used to build their own buildings in the 1970s and 1980s, but not anymore and they’ve long since sold off the properties to specialized investors like pension funds and their real estate managers (Bentall, Morguard, Tonko, GWL Realty Advisors, for example, all manage pension fund assets for those that don’t have their own management arm)

  • Glissando Remmy

    The Thought Of The Day

    “Constipation Alert! Someone is in dire need for a suppository… with a catch, though…as it has to be administered orally!”

    ‘rf’ #37
    My post #9 was NOT a ‘left wing rant’ unless you consider The Economist and Merco Press http://en.mercopress.com/2010/04/28/banks-serving-rich-argentines-moving-from-bs.-as.-to-miami-and-montevideo serving the Left…
    LMAO at your glorious remarks!
    As for the “Gilly’s” remark, I have to ask you… have I ever told you the joke with Mr.Up and Mr. Yours!?
    As for your condescending answer to Mira… you may be a hot shot banking trends analyzing prick but if my memory serves me well, Mira is delivering babies as a RN in Vancouver.
    Mira – rf (1 -0)!

    spartikus #36
    But seriously… What would a law abiding citizen have to do, in order to get rid of this insufferable drunken fly that you’ve become?
    BTW, I never was, am or will be a CUPE member.
    I am a CUTE member, though!
    Now bzzz away…

    We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

  • Frances Bula

    @Gliss. Just a thought. Could we avoid calling people pricks or drunks here? Lowers the tone. Bzzzz.

  • rf

    Isn’t “Argentine” spanish for “Greek”?

    Should we be surprised by what happens in countries that are perpetually broke due to soceity with next to no concience about paying taxes?

    “We are a socialist society so everyone collects but no one pays”

    The problem is neither left or right. The problem is that evading taxes is so rampant that no one considers it a crime.

    But they moltov cocktail the banks when the government cheques don’t show up.

  • Roger Kemble

    We called it The Argentine when I was a kid.

    Argentum is Latin for Silver.

    Argentina, South America, occupies the southern shore of La Rio Plata which translates as River of Silver in English even though the latter calls it The River Plate.

    Spanish is the official language but you can get away with Italian: if you can tango you can get away with anything!

    Like most countries today, Canada included, Argentina is a financial basket case although on visiting you wouldn’t know it.

    I spent a week Buenos Aires, and on the face I didn’t notice. It is justifiably referred to as the Paris of the southern hemisphere.

    What brought that up rf</B

    We called it The Argentine when I was a kid.

    Argentum is Latin for Silver. Argentina, South America, occupies the southern shore of La Rio Plata which translates as River of Silver in English even though the latter calls it The River Plate.

    Spanish is the official language but you can get away with Italian: if you can tango you can get away with anything!

    Like most countries today, Canada included, Argentina is a financial basket case although on visiting you wouldn’t know it. I spent a week Buenos Aires, and on the face I didn’t notice. It is justifiably referred to as the Paris of the southern hemisphere.

    What brought that up rf</B

    We called it The Argentine when I was a kid.

    Argentum is Latin for Silver. Argentina, South America, occupies the southern shore of La Rio Plata which translates as River of Silver in English even though the latter calls it The River Plate.

    Spanish is the official language but you can get away with Italian: if you can tango you can get away with anything!

    Like most countries today, Canada included, Argentina is a financial basket case although on visiting you wouldn’t know it. I spent a week Buenos Aires, and on the face I didn’t notice. It is justifiably referred to as the Paris of the southern hemisphere.

    What brought that up rf</B

  • Silly Season

    Ummm, just noted the careful pointing out of Credit Suisse as the people getting the cred for financing this office tower. It was the careful use of the qord “European” that go me thinkin’…

    Gee, not the same Swise who have made the term “Swiss bank account” a globally understood term?

    Whose money is it, anyways? Local Swiss people who tuck away their money into savings and chequings accounts? Call me skeptical.

    yodohlayhee-WHO???

  • Glissando Remmy

    The Thought Of The Night

    “Your honour, we respectfully disagree on this one… it wasn’t me that said that! It was my third personality, his name is Gianni, he is a bricklayer by trade and a social drinker by night, opinionated and outspoken . L’Italiano pero! In his defence I ‘d say: ‘They started it!'”

    So Frances, the question is:
    If I muzzle myself…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz0ebvpf9FY

    No, but seriously! 🙂

    We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

  • Michelle

    Ha, ha, ha,
    Frances re.#40,
    Glissando Remmy #43 says “Touché!”
    I love his postings, what’s wrong with a few politically incorrect words now and then, he barely goes there IMHO!
    :))

  • spartikus

    And with that Glissando and Michelle went up the embassy’s roof, proclaimed victory, climbed into the helicopter, and flew off to the aircraft carrier waiting offshore.

  • rf

    Ironically….when I typed “Gilly” (which I believe is what set him off), it honestly wasn’t an intentional slight.

    I had always read his plume as “Jill-e-san-dro”. It was only yesterday that I for the first time realized it’s actually “Gliss-an-doh”.

    ’twas an honest mistake