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Cultural precincts: An old idea?

March 21st, 2010 · 44 Comments

No, I’m not in Bologna or Surrey, as some speculated earlier. I’m in Los Angeles as I write, a city I have grown to be fascinated with because of the way it works and doesn’t in various ways.

Lots of things to write about, but I’ll start with my visit to the Museum of Contemporary Art, where current Vancouver Art Gallery director Kathleen Bartels used to work until she moved north to be with us in 2001. The MOCA’s central gallery is in what I guess is the civic cultural precinct of Los Angeles, though it’s not called that. It’s on a raised section of Grand Avenue near the financial district that is home to MOCA, the Frank Gehry-designed hall for the LA Philharmonic and, next to that, the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion that is home to LA’s opera company.

And what a empty place it was. We went on a beautiful Thursday afternoon and it was like being there on at 8 a.m. on a Sunday morning. A few people drifting along the street, a couple of handfuls of visitors at the MOCA — supposedly an architectural thing of wonder, but it looked like a bad 80s office complex to me — and a sense of being cut off from the city. (Too bad, because it is putting on a 30-year retrospective and there was wonderful stuff there: big groups of photos by Robert Frank and Nan Goldin, a whole room of Mark Rothkos, and more.)

It reminded me that every civic “precinct” I can think of has the same feel. The area around San Francisco’s city hall, also loaded with cultural buildings, is one of the few dead-feeling areas of lively San Francisco. Lincoln Centre in New York has never struck me as particularly friendly feeling. And it made me remember that cultural precincts were things that planners came up with in the 50s and 60s, when they imagined that you could remake whole areas of the city into single uses.

The cultural institutions I’ve always enjoyed the most are the ones that are part of an interesting street or plaza: the Musee des Beaux Arts in Montreal, the British Museum surrounded by Bloomsbury, the Beaubourg in the middle of a lively ancient part of Paris (even though they bulldozed part of it to build the modernist spectacle).

But I’d be happy to hear from some of the energetic researchers here if they know of a city that has a lively cultural precinct — that is, a whole district cordoned off for big institutions — because I can’t think of one among my admittedly limited list of cities I know. There’s something about the vast, windswept plazas those kinds of places seem to require that makes them feel not-human-friendly. As well, they’re often set in parts of the city that were being “rehabilitated” or something equally ominous and so they’re not surrounded by a lot of pedestrian-generating businesses.

Some people might think that that applies to all of the Los Angeles downtown, but that would be wrong. Just a few blocks to the south of the precinct is Los Angeles’ old downtown, which feels busy and lively in a 1950s way. The streets are lined with big jewelry stores and the old theatres and hundreds of little businesses. If you took pictures in black and white, the street scene would look like old photos of New York’s downtown in the 1950s where regular people shopped and worked.

The contrast between the two different parts of the downtown made me try to imagine how a new Vancouver Art Gallery could work at that east end of the downtown, removed from the busiest part of the downtown, and what it would need in it and around it so that it wouldn’t become a dead zone.

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  • Tessa

    That area already is a dead zone, and the gallery certainly isn’t going to change that.

  • Corey

    Surrey is currently building what amounts to a “cultural precinct” in its centre. Looking at the designs, it promises to hold true to other over-designed and under-thought examples that have preceded it. I guess they need to make these things look good on paper in order to get the public to buy in to them, buy ultimately looking good on paper translates on the ground into inhuman buildings and spaces that attract no one except those who have to be there.

  • landlord

    “…a city that has a lively cultural
    precinct…”. Strasbourg.

  • Frank Murphy

    The critical mass of art museums, the Caixa Forum, pedestrian promenades, grand scale public space, more intimate squares with cafes and restaurants, horticultural gardens, useless but grand roundabouts with giant fountains celebrating royalty and empire, densely packed bars and clubs and shops and hotels and apartments that’s Madrid’s “cultural precinct”. Unique and offers only limited lessons for Vancouver, I think. It is the proud statement of the modern Spanish state not an art and culture theme park. The power of Picasso’s Guernica in the Reina Sophia — Picasso wouldn’t allow it to be shown in Franco’s Spain and he himself refused to return to Spain as long as Franco was alive and the old bastard outlived him by a couple of years. (In the opening scene of Julian Schnabel’s film Basquiat Basquiat as a child sees it with his mother in New York at MOMA) Point being that the power of the art and what it means to modern Spain is almost visceral. Velasquez, Goya, el Greco, at the Prado… and the treasures at the Reina Sophia and the Thyssen. It’s probably fair to ask if the VAG’s up to the task of anchoring any version of a “cultural precinct”… or if we should even ask that of it.

    Madrid’s are very busy institutions and an important element seems to be free admission during certain hours or days. Lines as far as the eye can see. Sidewalks are shoulder to shoulder. When we were there a huge street demonstration was happening on Paseo del Prado. The national Police Union had gathered thousands of members for a raucous noisy march toward the Royal Palace in support of contract negotiations. Whistles, fire crackers, chants. Down the middle of the unbelievably lively dynamic “cultural precinct”.

  • voony

    I guess you mention the Jewelry district:
    a pretty good description, but with this disturbing “decline” feeling you get in DTES. More than DTES, the district has very good architecture potential, and other nearby skid rows are invested by gentrification…and parallel with our DTES could be interesting to draw.

    Regarding “cultural precinct” in LA: Go to the Getty Museum, and you will see it pretty busy (at least on WE).

    There is something that Museum goers are looking after:

    It is a sense of seclusion: to be extracted of the everyday life or “energy of the city”, to let ourselves to be questioned on the sense of our life, value,… hence the importance of secluded garden like in the MOMA in NYC

    and the Getty museum with his spectacular location , among other offer all of that:, may be it is one reason why it is popular in despite of its out of town location (for people not familiar with LA, it is like to install a museum on Grouse Mountain)

    I personally don’t think too much of our cultural institution, noticeably the VAG.

    I could agree that the building itself doesn’t help, but I simply don’t think that the collection I see can justify any grand plan anywhere.

    To paraphrase Franck Murphy, LA Getty has a “critical mass” , VAG “provincial” collection can’t be compared to. and here lie the Vancouver Problem:

    Too many “cultural venues” considering the overall quality of collections in town.

    It is eventually a a “provincial city” history problem.

    Rennes have recently built a “cultural precinct” gathering 3 “cultural establishment” under one roof:

    http://www.leschampslibres.com/31443897/1/fiche___pagelibre/

    and it has work well enough to boost patronizing way above estimation…and yes it is surprisingly lively (it has been built in a city otherwise pretty dead), but it has been part of a a larger “grand plan” including movie theaters complex accross the street (you know this other cultural institution usually arrogantly ignored by the former, but where eventually they should find their future patrons)

    (in LA, the MOCA is next to the Performance art centre district, and that is eventually bad, because you insulate a “social strata” in its own world…and of course the LA theatre are on top of very huge parking lot, where it is not unfrequented to spend 20mn in congestion at level -8 at the end of a performance…so no contribution on the street life)…

  • voony

    correction:

    You should read:

    (it has been built in a city DISTRICT otherwise pretty dead(*) )

    Rennes is pretty famous in France to be generally very lively

  • Urbanismo

    Surrey, baloney . . why not?

    What is all this preoccupation with a “CULTURE PRECINCT”?

    We have all done the European klutchure tour! Culture has nothing to with being a distracted, rubber-neck” tourist, or indeed, on a Thursday-so-it-must-be-Créteil bus tour.

    Culture is not about inanimate thingies . . . concrete chunks memorializing some psychotic punk who wants everything . . . not about sitting in a dank pretentious space waiting for the Sony 350 to click!

    Monumental buildings are a manifestation of our inadequacies, foisted on us for someone else’s aggrandizement (or money)!

    Nor does it have much to do with reading or watching esoteric “art” movies: or smart-ass talk in “The Kemble’s Head” Covent Garden pub on a drab and foggy London Sunday afternoon.

    Culture is being confident in our own being.

    Culture is politics without politicians!

    Culture is building an aspiring, discriminating people: happy to be who we are!

    Yup! Culture is about you and me getting over our differences peacefully, giving cradle-to-the-grave loving guidance for our kids and family, to teach them honest community participation: to teach them that, yes, winning is everything but not at anyone else’s expense.

    Actually, culture has a lot to do with platitudes we take for granted and, unwittingly, don’t miss until we do not have them . . .

    CULTURAL PRECINCT: huh!

  • Urbanismo

    Huh! Palace Ca’ D’ Or, Venice, has been rebuilt so many times its like Joan Rivers’ physog! Venice is one stinking (literally) sewer of an “art precinct”.

    CULTURE! How do we know what’s fake anymore: world museums are littered with fake old masters (I’ll bet VAG doesn’t even know) and no one else knows: if they do know, they wont let on because they have so much wrapped up in the stuff.

    Vasarely tried to make his precinct everywhere: art for the masses by printing off hundreds. But of course the “entrepreneurs” are just too smart, aren’t they.

    So culture really boils down to class. If you’re cultured you’re “posh”” upper class. If your not you just settle for making money!

    To be cultured in the UK, the “Saturday night and Sunday morning” “flick” (1960; Albert Finney and Shirley Anne Field (whoooo-ah)), was a cultural milestone.

    Prior to that “flick” you had to talk with a plum in your mouth to be posh, cultured: yunno precinct oriented, although in the UK there were no precincts within leagues!

    I know Michelangelo’s David in Palazzo Vecchio in Florence, but I also know of Michelangelo’s David in Plaza Rio de Janeiro, Colonia Roma DF. Of course we know the provenance of both so that’s easy . . . but for many other cultural icons it isn’t.

    Claude Monet made more than 30 paintings of Reims cathedral: free-market-capitalist culture would deem him to be debasing his “product” . . . but, ha we are cultured: I’ll bet there are thousands now.

    Evidently each painting depicted a unique light quality!

    IMO “precinct” talk is a give-away. If we are so pretentious to need an “art ghetto” then we are, definitely, not cultured!

    “Precinct” is about floggin’ real estate, not “culture”!

  • G. deAuxerre

    Placing similar uses in close proximity to one another does not always make for the better. It just ‘sounds’ better, because finding things that belong together feels like we’ve accomplished something that was otherwise adrift and lost. Planning practice has been away from organizing things by likeness and moving towards mixed-use to reduce peak congestion with higher densities, and to avoid dead spots. In fact, its actually swung a bit far; mix use is automatically specified in some places where it is not viable, (most commonly retail).

    Complimentary has shown to be more important; (convention ctrs/hotels, schools/playgrounds, certain live/work).

    Obviously, large-scale warehouse needs to cluster for major road access by large trucks, and unenclosed industrial uses creating noise, odour, (auto recycling/crushing, soil and gravel processing), ought to be near to share the externalities.

    There are also manufacturing uses that benefit from clustering, where one plant’s product waste streams over to another operation that uses that feed for its material input (steel, plastic, rubber). Food production, packaging and storage is another. But even district heating systems can serve different, comapatible uses.

    There are also some group efficiencies with institutional uses such as medicine and universities. Law firms, transcribers and court reporters cluster around the Law Courts where appearances matter.

    But in the modern digital world, the need for similar uses to be grouped closely for ‘dovetailing’, ‘synergies,’ and other unjustified cliches is highly overrated. And underused; how often does a librettist need face time with a museum set designer. How often does a librarian need close contact with a symphony conducter?

    An antique row, or a hardware/renovation/restoration cluster or recreation gear precinct makes much sense, as people will visit and shop several stores, but with cultural venues, very few will go to the theatre, drop off a book, hit the museum for a display, then catch the tail end of a concerto.

    The one benefit to precincting is that it makes some GIS map-maker’s job easier for a few minutes.

    “One of these things just doesn’t belong here,
    one of things is just not the same.
    Can you tell which thing just doesn’t belong here? Before I finish this game?” Courtesy Sesame Street

  • Richard

    An interesting parallel to the Olympic experience. Why it worked so well is that instead of building an “Olympic park” way from everything else in the city, Downtown Vancouver, essentially was transformed into an Olympic park meaning that there were already people, cafes, restaurants, bars and a host of other activities around. The Olympics added to what were already lively areas of downtown.

    Sprinkling cultural institutions along already lively streets such as Robson and Granville would be a great idea. A separate district just seems like a questionable idea.

  • Urbanismo

    @ G. deAuxerre . . . Granville island’s cement plant next to Sandbars and the Arts Club works very well thanqu.

    @ Richard . . . for heaven’s sake do you expect to have the sliders bob-sledding down Oak Street Hill

    Passion that is what we need more of, not measured planning . . . passion passion . . .

  • grumbelschmoll

    Frankfurt went through such a discussion: clustering museums versus sprinkling them throughout. They went for the precinct idea, lining a whole bunch up along the river, and it did nothing for the vitality of urban life in the neighbourhood.

    Munich has a museum precinct of sorts, with a whole bunch of terrific museums clustered near the Technical University at the edge of downtown, again, as far as street life is concerned, these museums act as countermeasures. Museums are like banks and government institutions, they deaden pedestrian flow.

    Let’s not do a cultural precinct, it doesn’t work as an urban idea.

  • Geof

    I am not at all convinced that a cultural precinct is a good idea. Here is what Jane Jacobs had to say in 1961:

    “Forty-five years ago, San Francisco began building a civic center, which has given trouble ever since. This particular center, placed near the downtown and intended to pull the downtown toward it, has of course repelled vitality and gathered around itself instead the blight that typically surrounds these dead and artificial places.”

    “Every city primary use, whether it comes in monumental and special guise or not, needs its intimate matrix of ‘profane’ city to work to best advantage. The courts building in San Francisco needs one kind of matrix with its secondary diversity. The opera needs another kind of matrix with its secondary diversity. And the matrices of the city need these uses themselves, for the influence of their presence helps form a city’s matrices.”

    – Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities, Random House, 1961, pp. 172, 174

    Putting civic buildings together may be satisfying from the abstract perspective of someone drawing lines on a map. Human beings are often drawn to clean abstract designs. That doesn’t mean they work in practice. The people who use those buildings will experience them at street level on foot in the context of the other things they are doing: going for a cafe for lunch, walking to work, visiting friends, etc.

    There is no good reason to assume that an art gallery would be more lively next to, say, a library, or vice versa. Each should be integrated intelligently with its context in order to bring the greatest benefit both to the building itself and to the surrounding neighborhood. A library is not like an art gallery. Its uses are quite different. In many cases this probably means placing civic individual buildings apart, where each will have the most impact.

  • Michael Geller

    Good discussion.

    I too have concerns about single purpose precincts, whether they be commercial zones, residential zones (with no neighbourhood shops, pubs, etc.) industrial zones, or cultural zones.

    This is why I was one of only a few people to speak against the city’s decision to eliminate residential as a permitted use in the area surrounding the Central Business District, including the Larwill Park site.

    If the gallery does relocate into this precinct, I would like to see high density housing and related commercial uses at grade, to add vitality to the area. And even if the gallery does not relocate here, I hope that in a few years the city will reconsider this decision and again allow mixed use developments and buildings in and around our downtown.

  • voony

    I gave the example of a provincial city in France, with rather limited collection because it is in my opinion the one relating the best with what we have in Vancouver, but eventually the problem is that people can’t relate, and give example of major city:

    So let’s give another example of cultural precinct in a major city:
    Beaubourg in Paris…

    Is it dead there?

    It is interesting to see how the “quartier” remodeled at same time than “Les Halles” has evolved in diametrical direction. sure it is not the “Zoo” of the Halles…but Beaubourg piazza offer an intimate, while still lively urban experience.

    Paris Modern art museum had anemic attendance before Beaubourg where it has been relocated along other institution and everything has changed:
    We could see no relation with the experimental music of Boulez stuff occurring in the same building, but matter of fact is that the thing has worked as an attendance booster (and in the provinical city, Rennes, it has been the same):

    bring the critical size and attendance will follow
    What I argue is more a assembly of the MOV and VAG under the same roof.

    That is not to go against the Janes Jacob view which I agree with, so you have to find the right balance.

    At the end every single museum, is a “cultural precinct”: it is not more than an assembly of gallery…and it is like it in order to get the critical mass making worth the trip: you could have get it with the Tate gallery or even Toronto AGO:
    the VAG is not even close to there.

  • Frances Bula

    But I cited that as my example of a cultural institution that isn’t part of a precinct. Yes, it sits in the middle of a big plaza, but it’s surrounded by a very lively area, filled with illegal immigrants in sweatshops, restaurants, markets, bicycle-repair shops, and lots more. It’s just one building, not a group of them.

  • Richard

    @Urbanismo

    I was referring to BC Place, GM Place, the live sites and all the pavilions that were scattered through downtown. For a lot of Games, these all would have been in an Olympic park in the middle of nowhere.

  • voony

    Oh, did I also mention that Beaubourg also offer one of the best view on Paris (like The getty museum on LA)?

    So michael, if a residential component need to be added: put the Gallery at the top of it, not the reverse 😉

  • Urbanismo

    Cuppla years ago, that white alabaster figure on Beaubourg’s plaza scared the shit out of my grandson and I when we tried to photo him: there he is, still as a frozen fumarole then whoops he smiles . . . so of course we gave him beaucoup francs . . . and scurried off.

    I’ve never seen anything like that on the QE plaza.

    Centre Georges Pompidou is a stand-alone precinct in its own right . . . within a party-walled (oh the party-wall is so crucial to a mature architecture) Grande epoch arrondissement of its own, it has precious little to do with culture, though, and everything to do with 19th President of the French Republic: huh, to thinq Napoleon slaughtered half Europe for that!

    Our bleak remnants of a culture precinct, the QE plaza came out of a 1950’s architectural competition brokered (Vanc Sun’s term) by, then, UBC’s S of A boss Fred Lasserre. Montreal’s Affleck et. al. were declared the winners but not after a major (brokered) tussle with fellow juror Eero Saarinen who favoured Chris (Later Cione) Outram’s design.

    Of course the banal won out which is why we feel so comfy with it today!

    Chris’s design, back them, trumped all our current psychotics, Gehry, Libeskind, Saint Arthur et. al., laid end to end. Wow he flawed ’em all!

    Nothing, within ten blocks, could have survived Chris’s north/south sloping massive chunks of theatre, loft, flying center, sticking up: the dominator!

    Nixed it was! Our trenchant Shaughnessy matrons would’nt stand for such intrusion . . . then as now!

    Ummmmm, I like “The be Good Tanya’s, ” . . . can’t tell a bouncer from a customer” Robson Street, especially on a Friday night when Surrey’s yahoos come to town with their blasters . . . now that’s a cultured precinct!

    “. . . but it’s surrounded by a very lively area, filled with illegal immigrants in sweatshops, restaurants, markets, bicycle-repair shops,” Ayeee God bless ye Frances . . . you’d love Tepito!

    The late Abraham Rogatnick wrote that the Queen E “lifted this city into the realm of urban sophistication with a suddenness that makes us shake our heads and rub our eyes.”

    Abe was full of horse-shit! I’m still shaking mi head . . .

  • Urbanismo

    PS . . . Vancouver culture?

    Thinq Bloch-Bauer without Adele!

  • Bill Lee

    Area around San Francisco’s City Hall.

    Aren’t the people inside the buildings: Art Gallery (weak), Public Library (strong)

    What’s this with people on plazas? Makes a nice real estate speculators brochure photo but not real life.

    We do tend to worship the sun after a rain spell. And will the new [del Hooters /del] Cactus Club at English Bay be annoyed by freeloaders on the beach and roof plazas they create.

    Plazas in December here are empty.

    Plazas in L.A. are ethnic ghettos where an autoshop once stood.

  • Jean

    Of general interest is City of Toronto’s efforts to revitalize Nathan Phillips Square. They recently had a design competition.

    http://www.toronto.ca/npsquarecompetition/
    Should be interesting. I lived and worked in adjacent buildings for almost 3 yrs. out of the 2+ decades as a T.O. resident before moving to Vancouver. The square isn’t totally dead all the time but it has been an awkward yawning space..unless it’s enlivened by annual outdoor art show, active skating rink, concerts. It is best in non-winter seasons. For those unfamiliar with the buildings around it besides City Hall, the square is bound by 2 historic court buildings, a library and across the street a busy shopping retail hub of Hudson’s Bay that joins up to underground shopping/subway concourses.

  • Urbanismo

    @ Jean . . . thanqu for the links to the recent TO City Hall comp . . .

    It invoked Viljo Revell’s bold winning design, last time ’round, some sixty years ago . . . especially the open courtyard space . . . I’m not surprised life has now moved beyond it though . . .

    The recent entries illustrate what not to do: tinker!

    Institutional education and professional expectations are no longer appropriate: urban design has so much more to do with people habits than pretty pictures, bits of planting and board room manoeuvring!

    As Lewis keeps reminding us its about QUARTIERES . . . stat!

  • Richard Wittstock

    Some pretty astute comments here. The Jane Jacobs reference sums it up nicely. A cultural precinct on the Larwill Park site will only further deaden that northeastern quadrant of Downtown. I echo Michael Gellers point regarding the moratorium on residential in the shoulder-CBD areas…contrary to the Planning Depts wishes, we are not likely to see a AAA-class office building developed east of Seymour Street by a private investor (i.e. non-public-sector) in any of our lifetimes. Tenants just dont want to locate there and certainly wont pay the freight to justify the cost to construct a new building when there are plenty of superior locations available. That area will continue to be a wasteland, as opposed to a the vibrant mixed-use precinct that it has the potential to be. The lack of new office buildings is not a problem of insufficient supply, it is a problem of insufficient demand. If the demand were there, they would be being built. But I digress.

    Cultural district = bad idea. Someone else previously mentioned critical mass…as an attendee of the VSO since childhood I know for certain that Vancouver has not reached a state of cultural critical mass, although things seem to be improving. We are certainly not there even when compared to Seattle, in my estimation. A lot of that is down to having head offices with big-ticket donors that we just dont have here, which kind of brings us full circle.

    The best thing the City could do to foster both the development of office demand and by extension the corporate support of cultural institutions (so that the taxpayer is not footing the entire bill) is to continue to rebalance the property tax between commercial and residential to help make Vancouver more competitive vis-a-vis other cities for head offices.

    In the meantime, the so called cultural precinct should be planned to be a complete neighbourhood (including cultural uses but also residential, office and retail) and should not turn its back on the principles that have made other parts of our Downtown so successful. Lets face it, it is the success of our high-density housing that makes everything else possible. Otherwise we would just be Edmonton with beaches.

  • voony

    rereading the original post:
    “cultural precinct — that is, a whole district cordoned off for big institutions — ”

    make me thing twice:

    I was arguing of a building as a “cultural precinct” can work, and Beaubourg example is.

    I have no example of working district. In fact coming back to Paris:

    It is interesting to observe than the Louvres museum by itself “kill” the life of the block it is occupying. and here, we have timeless architecture, world class collection,…
    but still all the street surrounding it are basically dead.

    Don’t get me wrong, it is not there is no hords of japanese tourists taking picture of the Pyramid, but there is no “urban life” on its streets (Rivoli,…)
    This museum has been way above the “critical mass” required to make it sustainable,and so share the specificity of the “cultural district”.

    On the opposite Beaubourg is eventually the right size.

    and to get there they had to gather several institution under one roof. that is the Key.

    Also it could be interesting to analyze how the architecture and location play in the success of the Place…

    and for it Beaubourg offer particularly “extrem” example on both account…

    I have an example of a dead place in Paris on prime real estate location:
    thought it is next to on of the busiest Parisian railway station, and residential with shop
    it s called “Place de catalogne” to pay tribute to its architect, Ricardo Bofill :
    there is no cultural precinct here but it is dead still. …the architecture could be probably the culprit

  • Urbanismo

    @ voony . . . Paris: there was a line-up into the Pyramid, and a honky-tonk midway and ferris wheel on the Tuileries: that was one August. Paris is dead in August.

    C$20 got two of us a cup of coffee on La Defense, in a February. There may well be thousands on Le Parvis, but it always looks empty!

    Place du Tertre, Montmartre booms with tourists, anytime, who thinq Modigliani still lives there . . .

    Only posh people frequent culture precincts and they are usually dead from the hip up and steaming from the waist down . . . go figure?

    Cities the world over have been killed by smooth men in expensive suites; malls and marketing; the type of people who gravitate towards malls and marketing; planning departments; the type of people who gravitate towards planning (and pensions); tourists and zoning . . .

    The real action is always found around the garbage dump, in the barrios and favelas. . .

  • Urbanismo

    https://www.adbusters.org/magazine/88/richard-wright.html

    “The art is defined by its fragility, both physical and temporal. Wright’s delicate, curvilinear designs don’t only echo organic forms. Because they are fleeting and profoundly mortal, they essentially are organic. Each work has a lifespan of weeks, perhaps months, before it is rolled over with white paint – leaving the art to exist only in the memories of those who have seen it.”

    A ah! At last a healthy attitude towards art . . . and hopefully “art hardware” i.e. . . the precinct!

  • MB

    They (the art gallery board) said they don’t have room to display 90% of their collection.

    Has anyone reading this blog seen the 90%? Or even half of the remaining 10%? Or tried to examine even a thin slice of the collection with a modicum of the detachment a scholar or knowledgeable critic would have, rather than as a biased and judgmental amateur who glances without seeing?

    If not, then who are we to judge their collection, and their right to desire to move to a new location, albeit to an area rendered desolate more for the surrounding zoning, quality of development, and ‘cultural precinct’ nomenclature?

    The desolation has got nothing to do with arts and culture. Some commenters said developing the Larwill site with residential and ground-oriented retail will animate the streets more than an art gallery. I say the effect will be marginal at best. You want animation, just wait a few years for the 10,000 people in the nearby NEFC development to move in. But even that is contingent on an urban design plan to provide generous and convenient and desireable pedestrian connections beyond the monstrous viaducts to what is supposed to be Vancouver’s ceremonial road (Georgia Street).

    ‘Cultural Precinct’ is only a label. It is not an area that underwent a deep analysis about cultural definititions and needs. Nor was the single, cavalier sweep of a planner’s hand over a map followed by any semblence of an urban design process. Did they even talk to artists?

    In my opinion, all the public land in the entire downtown area requires a more thorough urban design treatment, and that includes the streets and parcels like Larwill Park. In many respects, our public streets should be used as expressions of our culture — outdoor galleries — not just of mass engineering mediocrity.

    If the fact the current Rattenbury building truly proves to be inadequate for VAG’s current and future needs, and if the negative expressions about moving to the Larwill block overwhelm the decision makers (especially in the absence of more than one suggested alternative — stay put), then what the hell are they supposed to do? Perhaps there’s Third Way, a Second Alternative, a unique British Columbia solution yet to be defined? Isn’t that what this discussion is partly about, rather than just saying Yes or No? Why can’t we have a temporary Maybe, and look harder at it?

    Granted, we don’t have a two millennia old culture (except, of course, for First Nations whose art is powerful and occupied a central part of traditional society), and we are rather Eurocentric in our view on the topic. We have an over-riding hunger for Old Europe here, but on the other hand I’ve met several people from Europe who hunger for aboriginal art (especially West Coast carvings) and see it being unique in the world. Perhaps this is a big hint to VAG where part of their collections should wander.

    But we are not colonial any more, and we most defintitely do have an independent culture. There are several generations of home born artists out there. And their talent is no worse or better than any other generation in history.

    It’s my view that Old Europe and traditional societies fostered and nurtured their artists more than we have. In effect, we as a society have yet to catch up with the artistic expression of our times and our own cultural history, though it’s barely a century old. In our case that expression may be polytonal and requires assistance to achieve full maturity.

    Here’s an opinion by Gordon Smith, one of BC’s notable artists, about the potential VAG move:

    http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/letters/Leading+artist+says+gallery+needs+home/2710391/story.html

    Lastly, a word to Urbbie …. you’ve outdone yourself! Your comments in 7 + 8 are great, though I do not agree with all of them. And I especially like these nuggets:

    > Passion that is what we need more of, not measured planning . . . passion passion . . .

    > Only posh people frequent culture precincts and they are usually dead from the hip up and steaming from the waist down . . . go figure?

    Huh!

  • G. deAuxerre

    Urbanismo wrote: “@ G. deAuxerre . . . Granville island’s cement plant next to Sandbars and the Arts Club works very well thanqu.”

    It may, but only because it ~has~ to work. And certainly not well enough that those mixes of uses can be successfully replicated elsewhere. It makes for a quip, but it is an exception. Try extending your logic; an asphalt plant next to the Vancouver Museum?

  • Gassy Jack’s Ghost

    Sante Fe keeps popping in my head as I read the comments in relation to Frances’ question.

    I think Bing Thom — who the Premier originally handpicked to design this block of the “Cultural Precinct” — tried to address a lot of the questions people are raising about the wisdom of putting a monolith VAG on Larwill Park. As I’ve said before, the Premier didn’t like his community-based, more human-scaled approach, so Thom’s design was unceremoniously shelved by Gordon the Magnificent, who went looking for a more monumemental approach that would better reflect his, well, magnificent legacy. A monolithical dead-space in the heart of downtown sounds just about right, eh?

  • Urbanismo

    Closes thing I know to a “Culture Precinct” around here is Granville Island: works pretty well even with the cement plant . . . no aps A deG!

    . . . and there’s the Cultch at that end of town, Fire Hall at the other, QE/Playhouse appropriately behind the PO, Diane F on S Granville and VAG where it should be . . .

    As For Gordon S getting on the trash-the-Rattenbury-band-wagon . . . he’s not as old as me but he sounds much older . . .

    Of course staff want to expand . . . they’re bureaucrats for X’sts sake . . .

    Sounds to me like the town is alive with the sound of music . . . leave it alone . . .

  • Urbanismo

  • Urbanismo

    You want horse-shit?

    Here’s horse-shit . . .

    http://construction.com/video/?fr_story=ac5ff683d3ed5035790ee7450b52c711ab1a3171&rf=bm

  • Urbanismo

    You want good museum architecture? Here’s good museum architecture . . .

    http://construction.com/video/?fr_story=ac5ff683d3ed5035790ee7450b52c711ab1a3171&rf=bm

    . . . but don’t try it at home!

  • Urbanismo

    OOOOPs sorry wrong link . . .

    http://www.theyorkshirelad.ca/10alligatorreports/13anthromuseo/anthro.museo.htm

  • Urbanismo

    OOOOPs again . . .

    PS . . . and the Rattenbury masques Saint Arthur of Chunks’ chunk from Georgia view . . .

    So award it the freedom of the city for valiant civic service . . .

    Wrong blog . . .

  • MB

    Gordo’s legacy will likely be 10 lanes of smoke belching freeway.

  • Sean Bickerton

    For those interested in this topic, Max Wyman is moderating a forum on April 24 featuring Maestro Bramwell Tovey of the Vancouver Symphony, Norman Armour from the PUSH Festival, Hank Bull of Centre A, and Amber Dawn from Vancouver’s Out Film Festival, each presenting their vision of what Vancouver might look like as a truly Creative City in 2050. There is a website set at Vancouver2050.ca

    I disagree with Frances’ assessment of Lincoln Center. I spent a great deal of time there over the years – overseeing load-ins of visiting orchestras and ballet companies, attending rehearsals, taking care of artists and conductors, and seeing some of the most memorable performances of my life – Horowitz’ last recital at the Met for one.

    Lincoln Center is a remarkable success story. It helped transform the Upper West Side of NYC from the gang-infested ghetto that inspired Bernstein’s West Side Story into one of the most desirable, mixed-income neighbourhoods in the city. It attracts hundreds of thousands of visitors each year and is a focal point of the city’s arts life.

    And all of that foot traffic has enlivened the business area and the hundreds of restaurants that surround Lincoln Center. On any reasonably warm day the plaza is packed with tourists and locals swarming the iconic newly upgraded fountain, looking at the Chagal paintings that grace the front of the Met or the Henry Moore out front of the Vivian Beaumont, or buying tickets to the opera, symphony, ballet, theatre, circus or recital that night. There are authors conducting research in the arts library, gifted proteges studying music and dance at Juilliard and great artists rehearsing and giving a dizzying number of performances every day and every night of the week.

    It is a dynamic hub of artistic and creative energy.

    I’m not arguing that Vancouver needs a cultural precinct, although our award-winning arts institutions are clearly hampered by the lack of adequate infrastructure as much as by the lack of sustainable funding. But we would be extremely lucky to have any center that energized our city as much as Lincoln Center has New York.

  • Frances Bula

    I would bow to Sean’s greater knowledge of how Lincoln Center works. I’ve only gone to a couple of performances there and walked by on numerous occasions and so wouldn’t have the kind of sense of how it transformed the area that he does.

  • Frank Murphy

    When is it ever a bad idea to review what Jane Jacobs had to say? Death & Life, Chapter 8 The Need for Mixed Primary Uses: “… New York’s decision to take all its most impressive , or potentially impressive, cultural chessmen out of play and segregate them in a planning island called Lincoln Centre for the Performing Arts. Carnegie Hall was saved by a hair, owing to stubborn citizen pressure politics, although it will no longer be the home of the New York Philharmonic, which is going to decontaminate itself from the ordinary city. …Projects such as cultural or civic centers , beside being woefully unbalanced themselves as a rule, are tragic on their effects on their cities. They isolate uses..”

    And —

    “It is said by those who have the problem of raising money for large cultural enterprises , that rich people will contribute much more readily and heavily for large, decontaminated islands of monuments than for single cultural buildings set in a city’s matrix. This was one of the rationalizations which resulted in the plans for New York’s Lincoln Centre for the Performing Arts. Whether this is true about fundraising I do not know; it would not be surprising however, since the well-off who are also enlightened have been informed by experts for years that project building is the only worthwhile city building.”

    Unlikely she would have characterized the neighbourhood that was bulldozed to make way for Lincoln Centre as a “gang-infested ghetto.”

  • dazzle me

    coming to this a little late, but i don’t at all agree with the characterization of san francisco’s civic center as a “dead” area, especially compared with the rest of the city. there’s not much for night life there but, otherwise, the area always has a lot of activity. and i think you missed the most important function of said civic center – as a massive public plaza. vancouver doesn’t have that at all, so it’s hard for folks up there to understand, but within the past month, we’ve had a massive st patrick’s day celebration there (we’re talking thousands of people, bandstand, dozens of food kiosks, etc), a massive anti-war protest there, and lots of smaller assemblies (the grateful dead played there and the hippies took over the plaza, for instance).

    los angeles is a hell hole, and generalizing from that to the sf’s civic center, to lincoln center (!) is definitely unwarranted, in my opinion.

  • voony

    dazzle me:

    What you describes sound pretty much like what is “Place des Arts” in Montreal
    Toronto city Hall
    or “Parvis de la Defense” in Paris.

    “busy” is not synonym of “lively”…

    That said, I agree Vancouver misses a public plaza acting as a “Zocalo”: do it need to be massive is another question?

  • Urbanismo

    A Vancouver “Zocalo” was proposed last year http://members.shaw.ca/urbanismo/Cooperage.pdf but the “professionals” were too hypnotized and bedazzled by Adobe Photoshop: Central Area too mesmerized by plagiarism to notice!

    VPSN was out to lunch too!

    Right smack in the middle of SF’s civic square is a grove of Pleached trees that look good but inhibit the space . . .

    BTW Zocalo, en España Mexicano, refers to a statue podium stand . . . although Plaza de la Constitución en La Ciudad de Mexico, among others, has acquired the nick-name!

    You want lively? Wow . . . visit La Zocalo Cinco de Mayo . . .

  • dazzle me

    busy may not be synonymous with lively, but sf’s civic center hosts farmers markets twice a week, other sorts of markets most of the other days. and we find here (i actually live near) the opera, symphony, public library, courts, city hall, massive public auditorium etc. it’s like a turn of the century, large-scale version of toronto’s civic center (which is also really successful, if you ask me)