“The Edgewater has contributed monies to both municipal and provincial coffers. Ohter groups have benefited off their back, yet, when they need help, the door gets slammed.”

That’s simply not true 🙂

They are fulfilling a condition of licence by paying monies that go to charitable organizations. No group or individual should have meeting the minimum requirements for adhering to conditions they agreed to before opening be considered an act of charity or largesse.

Sorry Max, can’t agree. If simply agreeing to the clear conditions of running a business means you get to ride roughshod over the wishes of the community and against the advice of law enforcement and health professionals, then we are in for some dark days ahead.

Chris and Max,

Actually, Paragon is NOT currently fulfilling its financial obligations to the city, when we talk about their penchant for giving out over-inflated revenue projections.

In fact, they have NEVER lived up to projections. Those projections have been in the vicinity of $10 million per annum to the city. However, ACTUAL revenue to the city from Paragon has topped out at 64% of projections.

Now, we get more extravagent claims, that a bigger facility will bring in even more money to the city. The HLT report, commissioned by BCLC– but not promoted like they promoted the Paragon/Deloitte report—paints a rather different picture. An expert in the gambling industry, HLT clearly calls the new numbers into question. They project revenues of NEW INCREMENTAL revenues of an additional $67 millionper annum–not the $100 million+ projected from Paragon (and who include business taken from other area casinos in Metro in that total). And they further point out that there is no room in the Metro Market for an expanded casino—cannabalism of other casinos is the result. What is the good of robbing Peter to pay Paul, Max? This is a shell game.

And, to rub more salt into the wound, according to the McMartin story I posted above, we, the taxpayers, through BCLC, also give FDC’s to these private operators? Are we nuts??

This amounts to taxpayers subsidies to private casino operators. “Improvements to facilities”, my arse. We, the taxpayers, give them million dollar opening parties, buy “training” programs for them, and front money for things like ‘memorabilia’ for their casinos, via companies owned by friends and insiders. You can’t make this stuff up!

All this, with no accountabilty, no oversight. All this with no significant funding ($6 million per annum to look after problem gambling and other issues? Don’t make me laugh.) from BCLC to look after the “costs” of gambling to our society. Which I point out, they REFUSE to quantify. Well, the Vancouver Sun did a few weeks ago with business writer Harvey Enchin estimating that the real cost of looking after the problems associated with problem gamblers would amount to $58 million per annum. And that’s just one cost centre in this industry.

So, subtract $58 million from $67–or even $100 million—and we are already not looking quite so rosy. Now, what are the costs of additional policing (oh, I know that VPD’s Warren Lemke said “no problems here”. VPD work on “nuisance” calls –they do not work on loan sharking and money laundering issues, as do the RCMP—but he also admitted that there may be a need for up to an additional 25 new municipal officer to police the complex).

This whole business is an outrage. A top to bottom investigation of gambling and its many associated issues in this province should be undertaken, post haste. And by someone from outside BC.

First stop: BCLC.

The solution to a failing business is not to move it into a larger, subsidized location and hope it will do better there. The role of government is not to make sweetheart deals with specific businesses of questionable societal impact like casinos and the oil sands companies.

Indeed. I find it very strange, in fact, that there are people here making arguments about “saving jobs” and so on who – on other subjects and in other places – adopt the “libertarian” stance and rail against the dangers of socialism.

It’s a funny old world.

Just to correct a slight misimpression created by my good and admired friend, Mr. Geller, above, while arts and charity groups were protesting the provincial government’s arts cuts long before, I began working within the False Creek Residents Assocation against the casino last September.

Lindsay Brown then brought Sandy Garossino to see me in October to see if I could help. At that very first meeting we plotted out a strategy that was followed to the end – create a much broader alliance of resident associations, civic associations and leading Vancouverites to help the arts and charities in their fight.

That broader effort began with the vote of the FCRA to oppose the casino last November, and was quickly joined by the Strathcona Residents Asocciation and the Grandview Woodlands Area Council thanks to Lindsay’s connections in those communities – an unprecedented grouping of three of the most active resident associations in the city.

I also invited a good friend and comrade from Peter Ladner’s campaign, Judy Rudin, to join us to handle communications right after that first meeting, which she did brilliantly, and Peter Ladner to join Sandy’s friend Bing Thom to take the lead at a time very few people wanted to get near this fight. it was courageous of both Bing and Peter to take such a public stand so early.

We aimed most of our efforts at the public forum we held in Chinatown in February that I was very pleased to help organize and moderate. I was also very pleased to work with Dean Elliott of Christ Church Cathedral who brought together all of the downtown cathedrals and churches in an unprecedented alliance with their first common position on any issue in the city’s history.

From there we focused on bringing in more and more prominent citizens, and on bringing out the largest number of public speakers for any public hearing in the city’s history. I was very proud of the fact that the FCRA produced one quarter of the speakers against the casino in support and solidarity with the charities and arts groups who had begun the fight.

After the public hearings, I greatly reduced my profile as I was starting to mount my bid for city council, concerned to keep any element of partisanship out of one of the broadest coalitions ever assembled, a coalition of people from all political affiliations, points of view, religions and walks of life, much like our city.

And I give full credit to Lindsay Brown who was the main driver of this effort from the beginning and her coalition co-chair Sandy. They were the central players in this drama, and both helped drive this process to a successful result in the face of overwhelming odds. They deserve the thanks of the entire city!

Sparty,

Yes, sorry, missed the refernce.

Sean # 59,
you won in the category “Profile reduction”
LMAO
“After the public hearings, I greatly reduced my profile as I was starting to mount my bid for city council…”
May I politely ask, what profile?
Now is the time to increase your profile, not the other way around. Look at the Vision councilors, commissioners and trustees, after two years and a half of damaging this city to its core they take a quiet ‘destruction ‘ time off, until it’s again time to stupefy the electorate. Even Frances here is on a hiatus from real news, was that you Frances, at that joke of a Urban Design – new Heights in Architectural Excellence at the Vancouver Hotel on Wednesday? Brent Toderian the Director of Puberty bullied that meting as if there was no tomorrow, playing the Council violin concerto on a Ballem Vision arrangement. That was a pitiful display of ass kissing. He likes his job apparently, and he doesn’t mind the servility, money is too good to pass, for all that work…LOL
Hush, hush everywhere and frog music.

@ Ron #62

We live in an opportunist society.

Turn a blind eye to drugs, crime and gang violence, – lets look at the festering DTES or the ‘Granville Steet Entertainment District’ for example, yet, let’s get the pitch forks out about a casino that is regulated, policed and gives money back to support other programs.

So does this mean the city is banning all gambling – which means busting the illegal gambling dens in Chinatown and Commerical Drive (which have been there for decades and aren’t the best kept secret) Or are certain people pitch forking after the Casino because of its largess?

The casino will go elsewhere and at some point in time the finger pointing will start about why Vancouver lost out….again.

So far the list of can’t haves in Vancouver because of hurting someone sensitivites are;

Molson Indy (noise complaints)
MMA (oh, so mean)
Casinos (ho, so evil)

The squeaky wheels that claim they speak for ‘everybody’ get the grease, again.

Let’s put an art gallery in that area that a few will go to. In the meantime, we can avoid the puke puddles on Granville Street – the touted ‘enterainment district of Vancouver’ while we try to figure out if there is anything worth while spending money on in Vancouver. And I am, referencing those of us over 20. For people past that age – there is zip to do in this city – it offers nothing but endless boring restaurants with the same old, same old cuisne.

But hey, we have mountain and water… that should sufice forever. (Let’s just not tell other cities that are moving forward about that secret)

Welcome to the ‘not so cosmopolitan city of Vancouver’.

And don’t you know – pot smoking is so ‘green’. Load up people – there is nothing else available that someone won’ t whine about.

Perhaps Max should spend more of his time online planning a 20+ evening out on the town than picking apart every post on this single subject.
There’s lots of great things to do in this town. I for one am thankful that a massive state of the art casino in the heart of our downtown is not one if them.

Max, this subject seems upsetting to you, despite the fact that no one has called for the casino to be closed or even cut back in size.

For gambling professionals, Paragon look like the worst bluffers in the game. Which may be why they are the only Las Vegas casino operators without a US casino. What was it that Ann Richards said about George W Bush?

All hat and no cattle.

Nobody believes Paragon. If they close their doors instead of accepting the lease extension it has been offered, or selling to other interests, this will go down as the most spectacularly incompetent business decision in Vancouver history.

This town has sure seen its share of dummies, but this would be a first.

Max, you seem extremely concerned about what the employees will do for jobs 2 years from now. Are you also writing to Paragon to let them know that they probably have other options besides closing Edgewater?

“after all the political hysteria has died down or — their preferred option — Vision Vancouver is voted out of power.””

So if somebody doesn’t want a casino expansion in downtown Vancouver their best bet is to vote for the VISION/COPE slate?

That should read: “@BMc 18.”

The Thought of The Night

“This all ‘No Casino in Vancouver’ brouhaha, reminded me of a young couple who consistently continue to use ‘protection’ despite the gal being three months pregnant already. See, they were afraid not to get…twins!”

What did we expect?
When the city has a Lonely Goat as Chief Negotiator, it’s only natural the only product they know is Goat Cheese.

Maybe they should have rechecked their old commandments, like this ones:

‘No VISION member shall sleep in bed with Developers…unless they are on the approved list of Developers.’

“600 slot machines, good
1500 slot machines, bad.”

“No Vision member shall mingle with the homeless…unless it’s part of a photo-shoot.”

“Olympic Village gambling, good.
Edgwater Casino gambling, bad.”

Anyway.
Think Walmart. Remember Walmart?
Years of fighting. ‘They are the death of small business’ ‘substandard low wages’ ‘human rights violations’… Sweatshop merchandising, unethical purchasing…in all fairness, no different in ethics than the likes of Starbucks, Lululemon or Safeway.
Remember Walmart?
They were not welcomed in Vancouver South. The, listen to this… ‘the greenest’ Walmart building anywhere in the world, designed by a team of architects featuring Peter Busby was turned out for good in Vancouver…really?

Add a bit more time, mix a bit of luck with a Costco relocation to Burnaby, massage a bit the industrial zoning in Grandview/ Rupert/ Boundary Rd. and voila! Hocus Pocus Preparatus…Walmart is alive and well in Vancouver, in the old, painted over, and re-landscaped, substandard, dilapidated building… Suckers!

Same here only in downtown.
Michael Geller’s comment above is way too nice. Telling it like it is not good medicine for Vision. Paraphrasing Michael’s advice for Penny Ballem (real estate vs. medicine – LMAO on that one ) from an older post, I will stop making juice at home if Mr. Mayor stops giving speeches and advice on civic matters in public.

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

Ashokraj, I’m afraid you may have missed my earlier points, and hence misconstrued both Mike Smyth’s and my point.

As it happens, I generally agree with many of the comments expressed in opposition to gambling and its existance, and expansion in Vancouver.

What bothered me were the proclomations against gambling by members of Council, who then voted to support a new Edgewater casino on the BC Place lands.

The question I would ask is if gambling is so troublesome for so many reasons, why didn’t Council vote against any new casino on the BC Place Lands? It could easily have done so.

However, instead, it not only quietly agreed that a new casino could be built. It made sure the motion made it clear a new casino could be built. But the mayor and others made it sound like they were in agreement with you, and people like you. They are not!

This is the point Mike Smyth was making, and it’s the point I agree with.

Now, I do not pretend to have any inside information. I don’t. But as I reported on CKNW, I have been told by someone in the know that there are things about this proposal that I, and most members of the public don’t know about.

That is why I am convinced that a casino may well be part of the future redevelopment of these lands. It may well be that Paragon will be the proponent. It could be another company that is willing to purchase the license from Paragon and proceed with a smaller facility, that, likes RiverRock in Richmond, expands over time.

I hope this clarifies my position. cheers