Richard….thank you for the history lesson….but you forgot a small part.

Once Vision came in and decided where they wanted to put the lanes, they pushed it through with no consultation. They had a couple “information” sessions that told people who visited about the wonders of their proposal, but there was no listening, only talking (I know, because I went to them).

Many of the people (such as Chris*) who are commenting now, stated prior to the lanes going in that not only would businesses not suffer, and that all three business organizations were over reacting, but that based on other cities, the businesses could expect an “increase” in revenue. This again turned out to be false, and the businesses, and the business organizations turned out to be correct.

Once again Richard, I think you’re missing my point. The point is not that bike lanes or cycling are bad….again, BOTH parties are in support of increasing cycling and cycling infrastructure. The point is that when you make decisions, you work with the groups that are going to be affected, and you LISTEN…you DISCUSS…you CONSULT. You don’t assume that you know best. This is what Vision has done with the bike lanes, and with just about everything else, since they came into office. You’re not going to make everyone happy, and yes there will be opposition, but people tend to find things more palatable when you talk with them and try and work with them, rather than ram it down their throats. Again, those along Hornby, based on the reports Frances posted, seem to be the most strongly against the lanes. Why? Because they feel they had no voice at the table and that the city didn’t care about their issues.

Again, this discussion was started by Charles Gauthier of the DVBIA about things that could be done to help the businesses on Hornby, and find some compromises. We’re now trying to find solutions to problems that probably wouldn’t have existed had Vision consulted and listened before it acted. All I’ve heard on this board so far is that “there will be no compromise, no changes”. I find that incredibly stupid.

*Chris will undoubtedly deny this and ask me to go back through his 100’s of posts to try and prove it…but I’ll let the people who are regular readers decide whether I’m incorrectly characterizing Chris, and others, previous comments on businesses losing money from the lanes.

“Consultation is great, but at some point, if you want a durable solution to safety and traffic flow issues, you make a decision based upon learned advice, not popular sentiment.”

Coming from the guy who jumped up and down when I inferred he was against consultation, this is rather ironic.

And for the record Chris, you can still move forward with a given direction AND consult with stakeholders to address their concerns. So for instance, Vision could have said “Ok, we’re putting in a bike lane one way or another…but we want to put in one that minimizes the impact to your business as much as possible….so let’s discuss how we do that.” Again THIS WAS NOT DONE. A city engineer was sent and told the businesses what to expect from the implementation, but at no point where they part of the discussion….and the three major business organizations were treated the same way.

In further support of my position, when the city changed their mind at the last minute and moved the bike lane along drake to the opposite side of the street, it was not until the seniors center screamed bloody murder and it was picked up by the media that the city looked at trying to address their problems. Even still, access was restricted for these individuals….AGAIN, consultation ahead of time, and taking the time to talk to the stakeholders you’re affecting, GOES A LONG WAY!

@Jason #102

“And for the record Chris, you can still move forward with a given direction AND consult with stakeholders to address their concerns. So for instance, Vision could have said “Ok, we’re putting in a bike lane one way or another…but we want to put in one that minimizes the impact to your business as much as possible….so let’s discuss how we do that.” Again THIS WAS NOT DONE. ”

I keep reading this claim throughout this thread, but it is not true. Refer to the October 2010 City staff report. It documents various consultation activities over a period of months. I recall those mailouts, surveys, open houses, etc. Although I wasn’t at them, the report states that individual stakeholder meetings were held with DVBIA, the Board of Trade, the DVA, and so on. The report goes on to talk about the changes made as part of that consultation (primarily to loading zones). I know the original budget was around $2m, and that had climbed to $3.2 by the time this consultation took place and changes were incorporated. I think that was probably money well spent.

Are you honestly saying that none of the activities in this report actually happened?

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20101005/documents/ttra2.pdf

@ Jason: I believe that those business associations are wrong to be afraid of the bike lanes. I believe that they raise the complaint of lack of consultation as a red herring. I believe this for a couple of reasons:

1. The original budget for the Hornby lane was increased by 50% following discussions with business owners. The designs were changed to accommodate requests for additional vehicle accessses and loading zones, for instance. To me, this shows that the businesses were asked for input, and their input was incorporated in the designs. How else do you explain the changes?

2. I haven’t heard any specific concerns from the business associations that haven’t been addressed in the designs. This leads me to think that there aren’t any of significance. Do you know of any?

The Thought of The Day

“Somewhere in time, someone needs to be reunited with its senses.”

That would be Richard#88 and to be more precise @1.09min (and yeah, you wish):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnFfGSpuX0o

I am not ‘keeping busy’ with clever complaining, I am only pointing out things like…say, Andrea Reimer twitting in a stupor during today’s council meeting. We know… Reimer, it’s an 18-25 pounds, champion, a free run, not from concentrate, healthy Vision boy…or girl…or both. You needed to let us, know!

No Richard.

We live in Vancouver and the lack of Leadership is keeping us busy…in a Landslide.

Glissando’s comment separated mine from Everyman’s. My remarks are addressed to his request for clarification in comment #105

Can someone please design a official traffic sign that we can put up on East Hastings to indicate that is a “drug addict zone”, similar to a school zone?

Maybe a guy staggering off the curb while holding a pop-can to his mouth while trying to light the top of it?

@ rf, #112:

Can someone please design a official traffic sign that we can put up on East Hastings to indicate that is a “drug addict zone”, similar to a school zone?

Maybe a guy staggering off the curb while holding a pop-can to his mouth while trying to light the top of it?

Hey, or maybe we can recognize that we’re all people and try to make things better for all of us?

@ 112

Oh is that it?

So should the government start funding men with repressed anger who beat their wives? Perhaps have some government issued gloves available that will reduce the damage they cause?

How about alcoholics who drink and drive? They’re addicts right? It’s a disease. Maybe we should have special roads where it’s safer for them to drive and not hurt themselves or others?
Or maybe everyone should only be allowed to drive 30/mph during the evenings, so the accidents aren’t as terrible when more people are drinking?

Maybe we should replace all of the sand at playgrounds with fist-sized cobble stones? Some people have Pica, and will try to eat the sand right? Shouldn’t they be protected?

The same bleeding hearts that want to impose changes like this to ‘protect’ those who stopped caring about themselves, are the same ones who don’t want bike helmet laws enforced, even though the rest of us get to pay for their care when they crack their head open.

Don’t mistake or brand common-sense for a redneck like Rob Ford.

You can be university educated (locally), socially liberal, self-made wealthy or high income, and still think that the folks running this city have a lack of common sense.

At some point, the law abiding, tax paying, health concious, right of centre ideology will arrive back in style once the pendulum bounces off the Vision madness sign.

If one were to hazard a guess at what a health-conscious, right of centre person might make of this proposal, it’s concievable they would feel the savings in public dollars and reduced demand on healthcare services that accompany fewer, less serious pedestrian injuries makes a strong case for implementing such an idea.

Sorry folks, but my work has to take priority over posts at the moment…however, thought I’d throw some fuel on the debate by posting the CFIB’s perspective….

http://www.theprovince.com/travel/Report+doesn+enough+protect+small+businesses/5171357/story.html

Norman,
I rode up Hornby at 9 a.m. this morning and saw eight cyclists in one block. Every occur to you that one of the reasons people would use the Hornby bike lane is to commute to their jobs downtown?And having arrived downtown, they might be less inclined to change out of work clothes?