I’d say the prospects of ‘bad weather’ happening just before and during the games have just gone up.

Will we be flushing the money to defend this initiative down the same toilet the City of Victoria used when they fought the Supreme Court ruling regarding tent cities?

Michael Phillips : When you do pass the bar, this “1984′ Law will provide you with plenty of Court time.

So to all the people (above) who are generally opposed to this initiative by Coleman, what do you recommend to deal with the Tracey’s of this city? That is to say, those who refuse to go into a shelter (even though there may be space available for them and their buggy and dog) and subsequently set fire to themselves, or freeze outside in the cold.

Do you agree with David Eby that they should be allowed to chose to stay out on the street where they might die, whether we like it or not?

Michael:

That’s a fair question. But it seems to me this law is essentially creating two sets of rules. One for people who have an address and one for those who don’t. Would the police have the right to send someone home from a campground in a rainstorm? Seems to me that this law would allow that. Would they be able to stop someone from sleeping outside on their own property, or force someone who won’t turn their furnace on to go to a shelter? Extreme examples to be sure, but with this law in place those scenarios might be possible right? My understanding is that mental health rules are in place to put people who can’t exercise the necessary good judgement to care for themselves into care if that’s needed. Another law isn’t necessary. A cynic might suggest that the provincial gov’t knows the law can’t survive a Charter challenge, but figures they can enact it close enough to the Olympics that it will take longer than the Games themselves to have it overthrown, at which point they’ll let it be defeated.

Chris, do you really think this is an Olympic measure, designed to allow the authorities to keep “undesirables” off the street during the games?

Bingo. I don’t think it will survive a Charter challenge. I don’t think the proposed welfare rule that denies assistance to people with out-of-province warrants will survive a Charter challenge, either. But those challenges take time and resources – resources that the provincial and federal governments have thoughtfully cut to the bone.

The cynicism of a government that would hack away at welfare, cause a massive increase in street homelessness, then criminalize the homeless population – of course, for their own good – boggles the mind.

Michael,

I’m in agreement with all of those who have responded to your question: we shouldn’t allow police to physically force a person to do something/go somewhere when they’re not violating the criminal code, and being outside in bad weather shouldn’t ever make it into the criminal code. It really is their choice and we shouldn’t assume that they’re acting foolishly since they know more about being on the street vs being in a shelter than we do.

The best we can do is ensure adequate shelter/housing space, drug rehabilitation space, institutionalization space and psychiatric counselling, and ensure that the homeless have as much thermal protection (blankets, perhaps a kind of cheap non-flammable heating device) as we can offer.

From the article:
“Mr. Coleman said it’s possible that advocacy groups will mount a Charter challenge to the legislation, but he said the government is willing to accept that risk. He wouldn’t say when the legislation would be coming forward, but an internal memo noted that the deadline for the draft was Sept. 10, indicating it could be imminent.”

It also bothers me that the government would play “trial and error” with the Charter in this way. At least wait until there’s some consensus on whether something like this is even remotely legal before putting forward legislation. Locking people up illegally really is one of the worst offences a government can commit.

For information about the Olympics and displacement, see this ZNet article: http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/15054 – the footnoted information is good. Also, look at information provided by the Centre on Housing Rights and Eviction at http://www.cohre.org/.

@Todd: Haha! “Bad weather” just in time for the Olympics. The weather gods likely have other ideas.

Thanks for your thoughts…to Mira and others, I don’t pretend to have the answers. That’s why I asked the question. It was not a rhetorical question.

I agree that the shelters are currently awful places to live in, which is why I put forward the idea of building smaller, self contained units in relocatable modular housing as an interim solution.

I too want to see everyone have safe and decent housing, but realistically, this is not going to happen. We are not going to end homelessness by 2015 or 2025 or 2035….and quite frankly, I think it is naive to believe it can be done, unless one legislates against it. Or somehow stops homeless people from coming to our region.

In the meanwhile, however, while we build self contained accommodation, I do believe that we could also build improved shelters… with a greater degree of privacy and security. Why don’t the operators provide lockers where people can secure their possessions in the evenings? Why not create interior partitions, which was an idea tried in Toronto, with success?

My comment was prompted by the significant public outcry when Tracey died. Yes, it would be wonderful to build enough housing for everyone so this doesn’t happen…and we need to have adequate accommodation for those who are mentally ill…but I’m sorry to say but I don’t expect that this is going to happen in the foreseeable future. That’s why I was questioning what else might be done.

I agree with Geller. Allowing people to die out on the streets is not humane. How David Eby could even suggest this, shows an uncaring feeling toward very sick people. Although granted statements like this certainly haven’t hurt Mr Eby’s career.

It seems to me that the Povertarian industry is joined at the hip with the activist community (at least many anyway) and their solutions to homelessness is to allow the status quo to continue. Where has this gotten us? Right as Geller correctly points out, where the Tracey’s of the City are left discarded and alone out in the cold harsh conditions to either freeze or burn to death.

Where in Frances’ article does David Eby suggest allowing people to die on the streets?

If we are considering infringing on the rights of people during winter weather conditions ‘for their own good’ I think it’s worthwhile to consider the 25 deaths during 2008 mentioned in this article… and whether a similar law would be considered by the prov. government to limit their freedom to make a potentially fatal decision:

http://tinyurl.com/dxaq33

“Coleman’s heart is not in this.”

Frothingham, I am curious to know on what basis you have formed this opinion. Is it based on conversations or meetings you have had with the minister, or something you surmise, based on a generally negative attitude towards him and his government?

I do not claim to know the Minister, but I have been with him at housing events, including last year’s non-profit CHRA conference, and believe that he is quite genuine in his desire to address the problem of homelessness. While I don’t doubt that he wants to avoid seeing anyone die on the streets during the Olympics….so do I.

We are not going to end homelessness by 2015 or 2025 or 2035

It took less than 10 years from commitment to execution to place a man on the moon. 20 years ago the homeless population of the Lower Mainland was statistically-speaking neglible. We know precisely what happened to get us from there to here – facilities were closed and social programs slashed. Unlike the Apollo landing, we don’t need advances in rocket science. Homelessness could be ended in weeks with enough political consensus and $$$$. That that consensus doesn’t currently exist is a question of apathy rather than a lack of knowledge on how to solve the problem.

We have a provincial government whose policies have consistently favoured the wealthy for 10 years. We currently have a budget tabled that, for example, sets aside hundreds of millions of dollar for a sports stadium – the main beneficiary of which would be a team whose owner had already pledged to build a stadium with his own money. You tell me what problems need to be overcome.

I find it both troubling and amusing that out of 25 comments and including Frances in her blog post, no one mentions the FACT that it is Gregor and Vision who called for this in the first place.

Well, allow me to jump through the moral purity hoop and say “Boo Vision”

MLA’s housing allowance:

$1583 per month

I’m curious if you can point us to a source which describes how this idea originated with the Mayor or Vision.

Indeed, cite please. According to Councillor Meggs, it’s Coleman’s idea.

To those who wonder whether the Mayor previously indicated a desire to give police additional powers….

From a December 19th 2008 newstory:

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson, who campaigned on the promise to end homelessness by 2015, said he was “horrified” to hear of the death.

“Its a great tragedy for the city, its a great tragedy for all of us here in the community who have been working hard to right a terrible wrong in our city and address the problem of homelessness,” he said.

Robertson said Friday he was going to speak to Vancouver police chief Jim Chu about what could be done to give police greater powers to compel people to seek shelter on bitterly cold nights.

There you go, read the article. It states Gregor was planning to speak to the police chief regarding this.

Additionally I’ve kept a GlobalBC news recording of Gregor talking about this very thing to the media.

Lastly, if I remember correctly there was an earlier post on this blog with comments about this very same topic around the time Tracy perished. I believe Gregor was implicated as the originator of this idea back then as well.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Homeless+woman+dies+trying+keep+warm+frigid+Vancouver+night/1095685/story.html

So 2 for sure and a possible 3rd place if it still resides in the archives here, showing that Gregor hatched this bad idea in the first place, and yet him and Meggs have the gall to deny it.

What a bunch of low-lifes.

Frankly you folks aren’t much better if you continue to point the finger elsewhere on this.

Oh and Spartikus don’t forget to ship the crap from behind your ears once you get your head out of your arse.

And here I thought FBT was all about the tolerance of other’s viewpoints.

If you make a good, well-supported argument, I will change my mind. If I ask for a citation, don’t get offended.

I had a good friend who’s brother was diagnosed as a schizophrenic just after the charter came in. His father was one of the most respected and succesful lawyers in the city. He was one of the youngest QC’s in the country, money, connections etc. He spent the better part of a decade trying to get his son of the street and IF any person was capable of pulling a few right strings it would have been him. He finally had to give up against the charter. If YOU honestly beleive this has anything to do with the mayor or someone in the provincial gov’t actually giving a shit you are SADLY mistaken.
Hope that doesn’t burst anyones bubble but it’s the truth.

Todd

Look they had all the supposed experts on the HEAT team including Mr David Eby. I went into these shelters and they are a joke. It is up to us to ensure they are acceptable and suitable accommodation for the homeless. No wonder the homeless don’t want to go into them but again, the question has to be posed – what is safer and more humane – an indoor space where people temporarily warehoused or is it better to leave our vulnerable, weak and very sick people to be left on the street to die?

Did anyone hear Jan Wong take Rich Coleman to pieces on The Current today? Coleman says that he speaks to workers in the DTES regularly and that they say that things are “better down there than they’ve ever been”. The mind just boggles.

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2009/200909/20090924.html