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Australia has limits and reporting requirements for foreign ownership of homes. We asked: Is it working?

May 8th, 2015 · 124 Comments

So a little dust storm of media reporting this week, once again, on the foreign ownership issue after UBC geography professor David Ley spoke at a conference last weekend put on by Simon Fraser University’s Urban Studies department.

Ley, who has done extensive research on the impact of Canada’s immigrant-investor program and published a book called Millionaire Migrants, is now doing research in five cities with housing bubbles to look at what, if anything, they are doing to try to get them under control.

His point, at the HOUSE seminar, was that others are moving to try to cool down their markets, while Vancouver — largely through inaction by the province and feds — is being left to fend for itself. The four other cities he is looking at are Sydney, Australia, London, Hong Kong and Singapore

Kerry Gold has a story coming out in the Globe’s Real Estate section tomorrow that details more of what he had to say, so you should read that.

I spent the week calling people in Australia, which seemed like the most comparable place of Ley’s four to me.

Hong Kong and Singapore are city-states with much more ability to move quickly and unilaterally than a triple-level-governed city like Vancouver. And London, as experts have told me in the past, is on a different scale and with a different set of circumstances.

Vancouver and Sydney seemed the most alike to me — cities that are far from global power centres, but where house prices have skyrocketed and where there is a lot of attention focused on foreign investors and/or Asian immigrants buying up houses. (There, as here, people don’t always do a good job of distinguishing between the two.)

Economist Philip Soos seemed to have the most comprehensive research of anyone I’ve talked to there (or here). He’s just co-authored an 810-book on the history of Australia’s housing bubbles, with lots of data looking at housing bubbles around the world. He’s also done the investigation into empty houses in Melbourne (which is being hit by the same housing spirals as Sydney), using water data.

His take on the whole situation is in my Globe story here. To sum up: He says the biggest problem is not Asian offshore investment, which is no greater than what American and British offshore investment used to be. but government policies that encourage average middle-class people to take on debt and speculate in real estate. My story is here.

He was also pretty categorical in saying that there is no evidence that foreign investment, at the levels they are currently, is enough to affect housing prices for a whole region. As he said: “No economist can determine what effect foreign investment has on housing prices. You just can’t sort it out from the domestic investment.”

I doubt Soos’s research will end this debate. But he’s an interesting addition to what is a tough conversation, happening in many places around the world.  And he’s no defender of the real-estate industry in all this, as some local spokespeople are. He says the real-estate, finance, and insurance industries promote a system that encourages domestic real-estate speculation because they’re making a killing from it.

“They leave just enough for the people in the middle to feel like they’re gaining something,” he says, “but really the people at the top gain the most.”

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  • jenables

    You said artificial borders have no place in the 21st century. You seem to have a faith and trust in humanity and world powers that I sadly lack.

  • Keith

    Who cares if world GDP doubles? Based on the recovery since the last recession, the benefits will accrue almost exclusively to the .001 percent. If the benefits are not spread widely through the population, and the costs most assuredly will be, why bother. See the rising popularity of the NDP as a sign that people are tired of growing the economy and not getting any money.

  • Keith

    In 1967 they were so desperate to hire teachers in Victoria, they waived the degree requirement and you could become a teacher with three years university. Now they graduate with a five year degree and join the substitute list. No point in bringing in people when the unemployment rate is over five percent. Like I said, try suspending immigration as a response to economic conditions. I’m not guaranteeing a positive outcome, I’m saying we should try things differently to solve issues like chronic unemployment and underemployment.

  • Chris Keam

    – The point is basic equality for all people regardless of birthplace. Anything less is cruel and selfish.
    – Teachers’ wages haven’t dropped appreciably because of an excess of educators. Realistically, the main reason for teacher unemployment is gov’t policy to enlarge classes and reduce specialist positions. There’s certainly no shortage of work to be done on the education front, but there is a gov’t unwilling to make the necessary investment.
    – Open borders won’t bring a massive influx of skilled workers. If anything it will improve their lot in other countries as the spectre of an exodus drives up living and working conditions in their countries of origin. One could surmise more investment in education would be a probable outcome, and more jobs for teachers.

    If you are arguing your point from a position that there’s a scarcity of economic opportunity in the world then we live on different planets frankly and no meaningful discussion is possible. There’s enough for all, but fear and xenophobia prevents billions from accessing the opportunities to join the party.

  • Chris Keam

    “Who cares if world GDP doubles?”

    People in those places you don’t want to live and don’t want to come here.

  • Chris Keam

    Open borders takes away control from world powers. Quite obvious when you think about it. Canada’s size makes it the equivalent of several countries put together in other regions. There’s cultural differences everywhere. Yet we aren’t in perpetual civil war. People find places to live that reflect their values and get on with their lives. Take away restrictive border controls and you get the same thing on a larger scale.

  • Chris Keam

    You’ve made no connection between 1967 and the present day in terms of immigration impacting teacher employment levels. Of course the real reason for teacher underemployment has more to do with birth rates, baby booms (or busts) and government investment, etc. In terms of your position, the awkward reality is that open borders would bring more children to our country and create opportunities for teachers, both within and outside of the school system, as private tutors to provide one example.

  • A Taxpayer

    For many people, cultural differences are things like skin colour, language, food, dress or religion and dismiss critics of multiculturalism as ignorant. If that was all there was to the story they are probably right but what is often overlooked because it is not visible is how people think and how culture influences their world view.
    There is an increased awareness and willingness to condemn cultural practices that fall out side our shared values as Canadians – arranged marriages, honour killings, inequality for women, intolerance of differences in sexual preference, caste discrimination etc. These practices are often rooted in a culture that has prevailed for thousands of years, much longer than the recent liberal society we have evolved to.
    So we should not apologize for requiring immigrants to adopt the shared cultural values we have as Canadians and discard those practices that fall outside these values. This is only possible through managed immigration because unlimited immigration will provide the critical mass for immigrants to retain all their cultural values and assimilation will not be possible. You only have to look at the ghettos in the UK or France to see where this heads.
    I do not buy your economic argument either, but the adverse cultural effects alone are sufficient to render an open border policy undesirable.

  • Chris Keam

    I’m not surprised you get the basic facts wrong on this issue.

    “On immigration, British people think on average that immigrants make up 24.4% of the population when it is actually about 13%, according to the 2011 census.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/29/todays-key-fact-you-are-probably-wrong-about-almost-everything

    I very much doubt the UK need fear a takeover by any particular cultural group. Certainly, within a generation of their arrival we can see both here and abroad that young people from other cultures are quick to adopt values of tolerance and acceptance for differing views that are very much in keeping with Canada’s overall outlook.

    As for the economic argument, whether you buy it or not doesn’t concern me. The facts are there for people who aren’t wedded to ideology. They can judge for themselves.

  • Chris Keam

    ” As of 2010, there were 4.8 million Muslims in Germany (5.8% of the country’s population) and 4.7 million Muslims in France (7.5%). ”

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/15/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/

    This stuff takes literally seconds to find out. Ignorance of the real statistics while promoting xenophobic views borders on irresponsible IMO.

  • jenables

    Alright, are you planning on eliminating social services as well? Or is the plan that you only need to physically be in a specific place to claim the same rights as any citizen? Aren’t you suggesting highly segregated enclaves where, as taxpayer suggests, values that run counter to ours might flourish? There are parts of India where a solitary female out in the early evening and night has zero right or respect from others, think the gang rape from 2013 (although she was with a friend, not even alone) where her killers, expressing no remorse said things like “if my daughter was outside the home at that time (8:30) I would beat her and light her on fire”. If you have so little empathy or too much crushing certainty as to write off concerns of this nature as xenophobic, well, you are either denying misogyny or fixated on the wrong type of equality. I don’t want my worth as a human reduced to the lowest common denominator, Chris, regardless of how much more equal it would be.

  • Chris Keam

    MB really nailed it when he pointed out your proclivity for putting words in people’s mouths.

    Why don’t you read the many well-thought-out articles and online opinion pieces on the topic rather than speculating wildly. Start here – http://openborders.info/

  • jenables

    Uh huh. MB was repeating something you’ve said many times to me when you want to avoid answering a question or addressing a point. It’s a more common tactic than you might realise – get offended by someone “putting words in your mouth” instead of clarifying what you do think. Why don’t you try having a conversation instead of telling me to go read many articles. Here’s a quote from your website that rings rather hollow when you look at housing prices in Vancouver:

    “There is no relationship between the relative size of the immigrant population, diversity and the amount of economic freedom in the United States.”

    I also note the tendency to paint any opposition as bigoted, all immigrants as oppressed refugees and the use of emotional language and statements without citations. There’s also a strong distaste for private property rights, which in reality means a distaste for the average person owning land. I’d guess there is a less altruistic impetus behind it, but who knows?

  • Chris Keam

    There’s no point having a conversation with an uninformed individual unless you are trying to convince them of something. I don’t care if you agree or not, and clearly you haven’t done much reading on the topic. Pointless waste of my time. But you really should take a closer look at how you engage with people online (IMO). There’s a pattern to your comments that has been commented upon more than once.

  • A Taxpayer

    “This stuff takes literally seconds to find out.”
    But it doesn’t make it relevant since none of the countries cited have open borders. Instead of meaningless statistics try researching “no go zones” in France, or Rotherham in the UK or the Jews that had to leave Malmo in Sweden.
    You may consider concern to ensure certain cultural practices like those I enumerated above (and others such as polygamy and female genital mutilation) do not take root in our country xenophobic, then I am sure I have plenty of company.

  • jenables

    Are you aware of how paternalistic you sound? Re read your comment; if that is what you think, you really shouldn’t engage in the first place. You aren’t winning any hearts by making it personal every time you can’t answer a question, trust me.

  • Chris Keam

    Are you aware that you initiated this exchange… with a blatant misrepresentation of my remarks? And in fact that trend continues by suggesting I ‘can’t answer a question’. In fact I kindly provided you with a link to a website with a comprehensive approach to the question of open borders… that could answer most of your questions. This is bizarrely twisted into an accusation of not wanting to have a conversation. Happy to discuss the topic… with those who can come to it with relevant and on-topic remarks. Your desire to wander off into bizarre non sequiters about gang rape in India is frankly off-putting in the extreme and shows a desire to use the plight of women as talking points, rather than giving it some real thought. The reality of course is that open borders would be a massive improvement for women in developing countries by making it easier to get away from societies where abuse of women is endemic.

    TL;DR? Make your own points or provide realistic rebuttals of ones made by others. This habit you continue to display of assuming meanings that aren’t in the least bit part of a poster’s position is the reason you’re being called out, not because of paternalism. Those are the honest facts as I see it and I make no apologies for them.

  • Chris Keam

    Do you really believe practices such as polygamy and
    genital mutilation are going to catch on in Canada because people are free to live anywhere in the world they choose? Well, let’s look at France, where you suggest there is real risk of your worst fears coming true.

    “When a three-month-old girl bled to death in France after her genitals had been cut in 1982, a media outcry and the prosecution of the baby’s parents helped get Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) recognised as a crime. France has since led the way in punishing FGM with by far the largest number of convictions in Europe.”

    http://www.trust.org/item/?map=france-reduces-genital-cutting-with-prevention-prosecutions-lawyer/

    You are putting forth unlikely worst case scenarios playing to the worst aspects of unfamiliar cultures and then use this argument against a simple and effective solution. Let people leave those places where such practices are still an issue and settle in more enlightened parts of the world.

  • Chris Keam

    There are of course no real examples of open borders in the present-day to which we might turn for further proof of its value. However, the clear benefits of immigration for the economically disadvantaged need no introduction (I hope).

    Of course those ‘meaningless statistics’ do show that Germany is third in the world in terms of international migrants and France 7th (USA #1, with Canada also in the top ten). Further, almost half of all migrants end up in countries in that particular top ten list. In fact, if we use the USA as an example, no country has a longer history of mass immigration and arguably as good a record on human rights, individual freedoms, and economic opportunity as any country on the planet. So based on what we know, and what research we have at hand, your theories of assimilation and concurrent economic skepticism are ill-conceived hogwash.

    http://www.oecd.org/els/mig/World-Migration-in-Figures.pdf

  • jenables

    Chris, lazily providing a link to a site and telling the other person to read the entire website is not having a conversation, does not strengthen your argument and really only reveals your contempt. There is no shortage of contempt in the rest of what you’ve said either, seriously.

    I mentioned India as an example for you that some cultural beliefs and values have no place in a society that strives for true equality. I’m not sure if you also realise that while open borders would help women escape, it would also allow the men who view them as chattel to follow.

    I find it very arrogant that you would read the initial statement I made as my interpretation of your opinion, rather than my own opinion. It’s not all about you.

  • Chris Keam

    Hi Jenables:

    You are operating under the misapprehension that I wish to have a conversation with you, or ‘convert’ you to my position. I’ve stated my opinion, rebutted a few of the more spurious objections to the concept I put forth, and provided a good resource who those who wish to consider open borders in greater depth. To speak (write) plainly satisfying your appetite for online debate isn’t a task I’m interested in.

  • jenables

    “This is bizarrely twisted into an accusation of not wanting to have a conversation.”
    “You are operating under the misapprehension that I wish to have a conversation with you, or ‘convert’ you to my position. ”

    Quotes from two consecutive comments from you.

  • Chris Keam

    And now you quote out of context:

    “In fact I kindly provided you with a link to a website with a comprehensive approach to the question of open borders… that could answer most of your questions. This is bizarrely twisted into an accusation of not wanting to have a conversation. Happy to discuss the topic… with those who can come to it with relevant and on-topic remarks.”

    The reality is that I helpfully gave you a resource and my own personal criteria for further engagement on the topic. You twisted that act into something it wasn’t and now are trying to use it as being indicative of a contradiction. There is no contradiction, only misrepresentation of my comments.

  • jenables

    Let’s end this “not conversation” then.