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Are business trade missions by city mayors worth the cost? The debate continues

August 18th, 2012 · 27 Comments

There’s already a back and forth going on about the business mission Mayor Gregor led to London recently, but here’s the story I wrote, belatedly.

These kinds of missions are becoming more popular among the mayoral set, it seems to me. This is Gregor’s second. Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts led one to India not too long ago. It appears to be part of a world-wide trend to connect more city to city, which is the way some economists think the world’s trading systems really work.

But these efforts are difficult to judge, since cities can’t offer the kind of tax credits or other incentives that a federal or provincial government can. And how do we judge their results? If a mayoral mission goes over and gets deal signed while there, it seems as though the actual trip was just for show because surely no company decides on the spot to commit to a complex and expensive deal. But if there are no deals or announcements made for months, how are we to judge whether the actual trip had anything to do with the ultimate results?

Obviously, business people think these trips are worthwhile because they keep pushing for them and are willing to pay their own way to go along. (That was the case with both Robertson and Watts.) But how shall we measure their cost-to-benefit ratio and success?

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  • Julia

    I would have preferred that $100,000 be spent to support the businesses and jobs that are already here to help them expand and hire.

    Discouraging for existing commercial taxpayers to be paying for recruiting exercises that have nebulous benefits.

  • waltyss

    The problem with any of these types of trips is that it is difficult to judge the outcome. However that is true for most of these types of endeavours. The Winter Olympics were sold also on the basis of the economic benefit they were to produce. Next to impossible to measure.
    Overall, having a mayor along seems to heighten the visibility of the trip and provide a greater incentive for business people on the other end to attend and thereby be exposed to what our attending businesses have to offer.
    By way of response to @Julia, the money is being spent on the theory that it will support the businesses that attend and help them to expand and hire. That some 30 businesses attended suggests that they, at least, believe it helps.
    Does it work? The question really is whether the presence of the office of the mayor (or the office of the premier or prime minister for that matter) assists in getting people out. Who knows but conventional wisdom suggests it does? They always come back asserting that so many contracts were reached. Really, who knows. The best that can be said is that in terms of the overall city budget the amount is small and does no harm.
    And for those who think somehow this is a junket to the Olympics, going to London for three days including travel time, not attending any Olympic events is not my idea of a junket unless you believe that sitting in an airplane for 9+hours each way and dealing with jet lag is anyone’s idea of fun.
    (Unless of course, you are Bev Oda, but that is another matter altogether

  • Julia

    I would love to know how many ‘government delegations’ were circling the waters of ‘potential’, all going home to say how successful the trip was. All while companies back home are announcing they are laying off staff in the very industry we are trying to attract.

    The other struggle I have… we keep referring to these small amounts of money being spent. Add them up. We have engineering staff saying there is no money, no money, no money for the basic services needed by our city – like litter pickup. $100,000 buys at least 2 employees that can empty garbage cans.

  • Joe Just Joe

    I don’t think the $100K would buy you one employee to empty garbage cans once all costs of that employee are added up.
    Think there are some trade missions that pay off and only time tells which ones pay off and which ones don’t. Personally I’m a fan of the money being spent at home. If we’re open for business then show the world instead of telling them.

  • waltyss

    @Julia.
    Correction. $100,000 buys 2 people emptying litter bins for one year.
    As for businesses struggling and laying off people, isn’t the purpose a trade mission to attract more business so those layoffs don’t happen. I am confident that that is why 30 businesses are spending the money to send people to show their wares and hopefully attract contracts.
    Your comment appears to suggest that both the city and these companies are wasting money by going to what is in effect a trade show and that that money should be spent in other ways. You don’t tell us how.
    Whether having a mayor and city officials present adds to that enterprise is a matter of legitimate debate. All I can say is that at all three levels of government the businesses involved believe it helps. Given the small sum involved, I am prepared to grant them that.
    Philosophically you may believe that a city is only about litter pickup, sewers and streets. Most people, me among them, accept that it is about much more and that attracting business whether in the form of new companies or expanding existing businesses is a legitimate role for the city to be involved in.

  • brilliant

    Wasn’t Frau Ballem on this trip? What the hell for? Her job is City Manager-so stay home and manage the city!

  • Terry m

    Waltyss,
    needles to say that you have become the biggest troll on this blog. But the way you spin this affair involving City of Vancouver representatives , Gregor the man of the People, lol, wasting other people’s money is despicable. You are either a Vision or an NDP hack or both. period. people are not stupid Waltyss, your shtick works once maybe twice but that’s it!
    $100000 spent on this trip is a slap in the face of every Vancouver tax payer. I rather am ready to believe they went there on personal business… Oh, btw, your comments on how poor Ballem, Robertson and Magee had to suffer through twice the jet lag is hilarious. BTW, what exactly is Gordon Campbell’s job there anyway?
    Waltyss, you called people all the names, Frances takes good care of her ilk, you used to call people rasists , haters,, hacks, cell mates, bile spewers… WTF are you?

  • Julia

    I have never met a business owner who was willing to locate a company and invest millions of dollars based on a 2 hour cocktail party. Especially when there were endless competitors lurking about from all over the world with equal or better offers – including Alberta.

    I would still like to see some sort of results analysis from all that VEC networking that went on during the 2010 Olympics.

    Business owners have something to buy and sell. Politicians have nothing to offer but propaganda.

  • F.H.Leghorn

    Jeez, cut the poor guy some slack. He’s entitled to his opinions. The more people see what sort of person stands up for Vision or the NDP the better.
    Oh. and that should be “a f*cking Vision or NDP hack”.

  • Julia

    btw, Waltyss – I don’t hate Vision. I hate ANY politician that has no respect for hard earned tax dollars. When a politician thinks they understand business… it makes things even worse.

  • Bill Lee

    Madame Bula in San Francisco…

    And how has the City (San Francisco’s self reference) been able to win various software companies back to the City (mostly in SOMA district warehouses) and yet as businesses they are failing.
    There has been a lot of debate on the horrific tax holidays they are getting from the City (income tax and so on).

    Do the workers still live in Silicon Valley and commute in on rail?

    Is the art galler(ies) run by the city solvent? DeYoung, Brundage, MoFA etc.
    And how is development of brownfield condos coming.

    And the fabled lack of parking.
    San Francisco has installed sensors and new meters on some blocks to track where cars are parked and set prices accordingly.

    San Francisco is first U.S. city to top $10 minimum wage in 2012. The city’s hourly wage for its lowest-paid workers will hit $10.24, more than $2 above the California minimum wage and nearly $3 more than the working wage set by the federal government.

  • boohoo

    These things are impossible to measure as ‘worth it’. Is it ‘worth it’ now? In a year? 5 years? 10? Who defines worth it?

    It’s just fodder for those who want to scream and rant.

  • gman

    Greg-Gore couldn’t even keep Happy Planet in Vancouver and people are supposed to believe this little junket will produce anything.Do you really think the Mayor has anything to offer,do they think these companies don’t already know what the taxes are and the cost of living in Vancouver is and the impact of the carbon tax will have on them? And if our illustrious Mayor gives them a better offer is that fair to the people who are already here trying to make a go of it .To me that is absurd and shows how out of touch this Mayor is . Government should never chase business they should only manage the city properly and that keeps taxes low and attracts companies to our city.This trip like the secret trip to NewYork have more to do with an agenda than caring about Vancouver.I wonder how much we pay every year to be a member of ICLEI ?

  • waltyss

    @gman: it’s too bad you have such a low opinion of our city which seems to attract more than its share of high tech, film and animation business. I guess they shouldn’t be here because of our taxes and cost of living. Our municipal taxes are actually quite low by the measure of most comparable cities, as is our cost of living.

    We are also a desirable place to live. Who really wants to live in Calgary?
    If you really wondered what we pay every year to be a member of ICLEI, you could have looked it up. I did. 2882 € or about $3600. What is your point?

    @Terry M. I have noticed that you never ever have anything constructive to say. I never called anyone a “rasist”; I did call Mira a racist but that is because by her comments she has proven herself to be.
    As for hater, hack or bile spewer, well, Terry M, look at your post particularly the one at #7, and tell me if any of those titles fits. My guess is they all do.
    And if Frances Bula is only taking care of her ilk, shouldn’t you find yourself a website reserved for looney right wing haters. Really, you would be more at home.
    @Foghorn Leghorn, #9, trying to have our second post deleted, are we?

  • F.H.Leghorn

    Waltyss’ remarks concerning the desirability of Vancouver thanks to “our quite low taxes and cost of living” conveniently ignores the cost of housing which remains stubbornly high despite the Mayor’s best efforts.
    Name three major films produced here in the last year and explain why so manyvideo game companies have bailed. High tech? For example? Ballard? In Burnaby. MDA? In Richmond. VEC is nothing more than a talk-shop cranking out reams of high-priced platitudes. Kind of like Waltyss.
    He has forgotten (if he ever knew) that good manners are the Vaseline of social intercourse. Delete away and see if I care. I rest my case in the matter of Waltyss v. good taste.

  • waltyss

    @Foghorn Leghorn, you really do have a juvenile mind firmly rooted in the gutter. Good manners Foghorn, I think not.

  • gman

    Witless you can jabber away all you want it doesn’t change the fact they are leaving not coming,witless you spout off as if you have some great knowledge, why not share a link with us great unwashed and prove your point instead of flapping your lips and dancing to the party line.Your like an old Boy George record…you spin me right round baby right round.Are you completely devoid of any personal opinion or do you only repeat whats fed to you.I find you to be useless and will no longer respond to your juvenile attacks,and I would suggest that others shun you also. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbU4kRdDsrY You Witless are what people call a useful idiot,I’m sure your family is very proud of you.I await with baited breath your long winded response….not.

  • brilliant

    F.H Leghorn-Chasing film and digital media business is indeed a fools game. They’ll pull up stakes and follow tax incentives faster than a Shrrey resident will load up the minivan and wait in a border line:up to save a few bucks on milk.

  • Morven

    If the city published a report that set out the reasons for the trip and the results in terms of how other cities cope, I might be convinced.

    Otherwise, the reasons are murky and the political thinking is opaque.
    -30-

  • waltyss

    @gman, promise you will not respond to my “juvenile attacks” although you may have me confused with Foghorn Leghorn, the master of filthy juvenile attacks. I will then happily ignore you and brilliant not, and Terry M and your fellow traveller haters. I already ignore the racist Mira. I think we all would be happier.

  • F.H.Leghorn

    “the master of filthy juvenile attacks”. Praise from Caesar.

  • teririch

    @Julia #1

    I agree that something needs to be done for businesses to survive.

    I walked West 4th yesterday and 3 more shops are now sporting the ‘For Lease’ sign that smatters every block.

    The one shop had a ‘Rent Distress’ notice in the window.

    The 2000 block is particularly vacant.

    Further west towards MacDonald, one shop did a midnight move….they could no longer afford to honor the lease.

    The thrift shop that was in the 2700 block was paying $11K/month. That is why they are gone.

    It is a sad state.

  • Ned

    Lookie here Walrusses #20
    In one paragraph you managed to insert:
    “filthy juvenile attacks”
    “fellow traveller haters”
    “the racist Mira”
    No comments. You are a class act, W!

  • jesse

    The correct term is “junket”.

  • brilliant

    Poor Witless, with so many people on his personal ignore list he’ll be talking to himself..

  • Bill Lee

    Trade mission to UK was partly to bring hi-tech (computer stuff) to Vancouver.

    The Vancouver Sun says that Vancouver is only having ‘microdwarve companies’ as the big ones leave or close the branch plant here.

    ” A whole new game for industry as big-name videogame studios leave Vancouver
    The loss of large videogame studios in Vancouver has brought about a more nimble local industry
    By JENNY LEE, Vancouver Sun August 28, 2012
    Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/life/whole+game+industry+name+videogame+studios+leave+Vancouver/7158077/story.html

    …Sure, a couple of large local videogame companies have closed shop recently, but a brave young industry is already rising from the ashes.

    “The indie scene in Vancouver is on fire,” says Brenda Bailey Gershkovitch, CEO of Silicon Sisters Interactive.

    The exodus of console videogame companies has fuelled a creative resurgence, she explains. Large numbers of talented, now-jobless industry veterans, new mobile technologies, the low cost of entry into the sector, as well as strong local infrastructure are helping a new generation of videogame companies such as Roadhouse Interactive, A Thinking Ape, JetPack Interactive, and Genius Factor Games.

    Unlike their departed counterparts (Radical Entertainment, Rockstar Vancouver), the new firms are playing a nimble game with dramatically smaller budgets and project scopes — think $100,000, three months and three to seven people to build a game, compared to as much as $20 million, four years and hundreds of staff. An inexpensive mobile game can be turning a profit with as few as 100,000 sales, Bailey Gershkovitch said…. [ more ]

  • Bill Lee

    Anyone talked to Tan Yigitcanlar, of QUT about his recent article: “Comparing: Knowledge-based Urban Development of Vancouver, Melbourne, Manchester and Boston”?

    He hasn’t updated his page in the past year [ staff.qut.edu.au/staff/yigitcan/ ]
    but QUT put up an epring http://eprints.qut.edu.au/39204/1/c39204.pdf