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After a three-month shutdown and consultations, Robson Street to open again Dec. 1

November 24th, 2012 · 22 Comments

It’s going to take more than a few months to work out the issues related to turning Robson Street in front of the Vancouver Art Gallery into a public square.

That seems to be the conclusion from the city’s transportation engineer, Jerry Dobrovolny, at the end of three months of consultation about the future of the space, which included having the street closed past the normal summer activities there.

The city’s report, which came out late Friday, is here, and my quickie Globe webfile is here.

Categories: Uncategorized

  • Roger Kemble

    May I humbly suggest closing off Robson behind VAG is symbolically much more than just closing off the street, or playing around with buses. (Handy dart facilitates the infirm.)

    http://www.theyorkshirelad.ca/6urbandesign/vancouver.square/vancouver.square.html

    First task of utmost importance: save the square from architecture!

    Vancouver is one of the few cities in the country that does not have a celebratory focus: Victoria’s Centennial Square. Nanaimo’s Diane Krall Plaza, Toronto’s Nathan Phillips Square, Montreal’s Dominion Square and Phillips Square and Ville de Quebec’s Place d’Youville to mention just a few.

    My suggestions to add to the conversation would be to:

    *Put VAG out of it’s misery. Give it space to expand.

    *Bring UBC incrementally into the real world, away from from its isolation out on the nowheres, and relieve the deadly traffic on Broadway when classes are in session: this would be one of its many accessible satellites (SFU too!) across the city.
    Then get serious . . .

    *Incrementally, over time, create pedestrian responsive, pedestrian scale, street level gardens, places and spaces accessible off the surrounding streets.

    *Introduce lots of colour and texture, in planting and building surfaces: add joy (is dispensing the law so damn serious?) to an otherwise dull, (concrete is not the new marble) over powering pile of stuff and elevated, inaccessible, planting.

    Remember how popular the cushions were!

    Thanqu, I hope some of these ideas gain some traction . . . over time of course!

  • IanS

    Good decision to open the street again, IMO.

    While I don’t think much of how the space was used over the summer, at least it was being used. Over the last few months, that block has been a complete dead space.

  • brilliant

    There are plenty of other areas this kind of project can be done without disrupting a major transit route.

  • Voony

    It is good they recognize this closure of Robson has been a failure…

    Roger, you would like update your geography of square.

    Dominion square and celebration is an oxymoron in Quebec 😉

    Montrealais tend to celebrate on Rue Ste Catherine (Montreal plans to redo it in the Exhibition road fashion, remember there is a bus rue ste Catherine)…but I guess you are talking about programmatic square:
    It is Place Des Arts in Montreal (where all the summer festival, including Jazz one, occurs).

    If next time Toronto celebrates you go to Philips Nathan square, you are bound to disappointment . I recommend you take the shiny trinket and follow the crowd…it will bring you where to be!

    you could have heard of Y&D…
    it is where things happen most of the time.
    Philips Nathan, is where the city organize activities. It does too, with similar success at Mel Lastman square…squares under artificial life…

    Robson square is like it too…no cushion, or other programming..the space doesn’t live.

    For celebration: what the point to go out to celebrate if no-one notice (traffic disruption…)?

    in big city one square fit all is a rare occurrence, and thing tend to work in a rather complex but organic pattern
    (In Paris the Geography of square is like it http://voony.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/geography-of-paris-squares-or-plazas/ :
    ).
    Even in city like Surrey, you have central city (programming), and Scott Road#72nd (for the real stuff…) …

  • Terry M

    Voony @4
    Correct.
    “Yes, if one wants to really have a go at it, one would need to start with better programming.”
    …
    That’s what Glissando Remmy’s wrote at that post re North VAG Plaza a few weeks back.
    Valid here too more than ever.
    And the SUN of course!
    I agree with both!

  • Roger Kemble

    Terry M @ #5. Not correct!

    Invoking those Westend OAP’s, Voony @ #4, was paucity of argument writ large.

    I cannot fathom why you insist on bus access across block 51. I’m an OAP, what with my buggered-up back, I have no prob walking that extra block. Besides all OAP needs, medical or otherwise, do not require crossing block 51.

    Pretty soon you’ll be invoking Area 51!

    As for Paris: I’ve bin there a few times. It isn’t my favourite watering hole. They tell me it’s a pretty place.

    The West Coast seems to have been the exclusive prerogative of the Spanish and English. Vasco Núñez de Balboa and George Vancouver where the main protagonists in stealing this land from its rightful owners: nothing to be proud of there! I thinq, at that time, you French were thousands of miles away inventing putine.

    Ergo I prefer to reference deployment of urban spaces south of the border, of which there is a limitless font: from the huge (I mean huge) Plaza de la Constitucion to the miniscule Rincon Jesus. None of which are good reference for Vancouver whose only claim to (urban place) fame is Victory Square, the slope, of which makes it virtually useless, to Pigeon Park, an exclusive domain for those who’s privacy I respect.

    IMO blocks 51 and 61, urban place-wise, are all we’ve got. There is, in those two blocks, the potential for an urban intimacy worth exploring. We should treasure their potential and treat the city to a public amenity redevelopment as I have shown in my very preliminary previous sketch. Please, anyone, post an alternative to grow the conversation re Vancouver’s public space amenity? Don’t be intimidated by Voony. He isn’t the be all and end all!

    Thanqu, sin embargo, Voony for your insightful comments. But there is, as always, the elephant in the room . . .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XliTvxqTtsE&feature=player_embedded#!
    . . . and note reference to “The dark matter out there ” that seems to circumscribe every aspect of our lives.

    It is the world’s essential governance. Shiny (not so anymore) trinkets, short platforms (who designed this thing?), overcrowding (wot already? Its barely been running a couple of years!) and all.

    So much for Vancouver’s lack of TX-ability and lack of (I’m thinquing those, coming on stream, ghastly, elevated locked down, fancy gated ghettos) urban sensitivity! Jeez Block 51 is the least of our troubles . . .

    Buses, shiny trinkets, “a foolish consistency, the hobgoblin of little minds.” Apologies Ralph Waldo . . .

  • Julia

    when you read the words ‘programming’ replace that with ‘tax dollar entertainment’. Which would you rather have – lower property taxes, repaired sidewalks, or pillows on Robson Street.

  • Andrew Browne

    Happy to have the road open again. The Robson bus route was a mess and I’m very much looking forward to its restoration. The circuitous route they had in its place was terrible.

  • Andrew Browne

    I guess I would add that this “celebration” space disrupts people who actually live downtown. It gets in the WAY of normal life, it doesn’t enhance anything.

  • Ned

    Roger #6
    Beg to differ on both counts.
    In case the space is closed again in the future (on a temporary basis), I hope for better programming, yes as in ‘activities to animate the place’. I hope the ‘block 51’ stays open to TRANSIT instead of accommodating the Vision minority.
    This street should remain OPEN for TRANSIT though. There is no excuse or justification for putting so many people that rely on public transit, on this route to the despicable treatment they had to endure during the past months so that Robertson & company could check yet another symbolic action.
    As for planners, urban designers, architects, or transportation engineers… a city without them, would be a better city. Imagine the savings we would make. 🙂

  • Roger Kemble

    “. . . the despicable treatment they had to endure during the past months . . .” Well the oracle has spoke, Ned @ #10. Who am I to argue, but despicable . . . errrrr . . . isn’t that just a wee bit hysterical over-thu-top?

    Obviously the three trinketeers (Gordie, Stephen, Voony) have more influence over the pop urban imagination than those that “. . . without them, would be a better city“. And yunno what, Ned, judging by the droppings of the current crop I’m just a little inclined to agree . . . (160 planners and wadda we get, sixteen taxes and deeper in debt!)

    So the Westend OAP’s need the block 51 (not to be confused with Area 51) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51) bus to shop! That figures. They sure don’t need the bus to sign up for JCI Vancouver so I guess they’re headed to Nordstom’s for their meds!

    Maybe Nordtrom’s should go to Coquitlam: once they get a sense of downtown they’ll bail just as Eaton’s and Sears did.

    CBC says the country has just exceeded C$16B debt so what else can we do other than shop-till-we-drop and take the bus?

    Since 1951 the city has grown 344,833 to 603,502: hardly 42%: Metro over 400%: so there’s gold in that thar sprawl.

    Oh and BTW, did you know a family home in Palm Springs goes for just US$100k? No one has any money south of the border. So Nordtrom’s moves here to catch wafts of thu Great Gobi’s blows. Little do they realize that in Doug Coupland’s City of Glass, the glass is empty.

    So, what else is there to do in this world class paradise but to take the nearest shiny trinket from here, wherever here is, to there, where ever there is: evidently no one cares!

    So whom needs a Civic Celebratory focus when there is nothing to celebrate!

  • Roger Kemble

    PS Oh, just one other thought Ned. I’m an OAP with a broken back but I can still walk.

    I steer clear of the doc as much as possible: all he does is prescribe another phuccin’ pill! Tell that to your OAP pals! . . . despicable treatment . . . jeeeez . . .

    Oh and mebbe your despicably treated OAP’s can spare a thought for youngsters who have fun bouncing on cushions and the lay-a-bouts who love lounging on VAG’s steps taking in the sunshine.

    Tell that to yer despicably treated! They were there once: oh how you forget.

    Also don’t be too hard on the the Vision minority. I lived thru forty years of NPA (angry George pouting, “delay view corridors until we know what Concord has planned“) interspersed with a six-year blink of TEAM (the beautiful couple chased thousands of good, high paying industrial jobs our of town).

    “ . . . so many people that rely on public transit
    . . .    . Trust me Ned you don’t know when you’re well off!

    You sound to me like a real jerk!

  • waltyss

    @Roger, 11 and 12. Wonderfully put. As someone who sees OAP approaching quickly and who believes objects in the mirror may appear bigger than they really are, your postings gave me both hope and a chuckle.
    As for poor old (don’t know how old Ned is in human years, but he is certainly old in spirit), that old Vision minority keeps winning elections. Must be the math. As for Ned’s folk, whoever they may be, well…..’Nuff said.

  • Anne M

    There’s a very interesting series of posts about #5 route on Gordon Price’s blog: http://pricetags.wordpress.com/

  • Anne M

    Here’s a better link to the first of the series:

    http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2012/11/24/circling-the-square-1-transit-on-robson-and-beyond/

  • brilliant

    @Anne M-thanks for correcting the link as the first led to yet another misguided anti-car screed ftom Price. How he managed to blame declining US visits to Canada by car on “the fall of motordom” while completely ignoring the implementation of passport requirements and the Great Recession was laughable.

  • Richard

    @brilliant

    And that would explain decreased driving within the States. Oh wait, they don’t need passports to travel within their own country yet.

  • brilliant

    @Richard 17-no passport required but yeah, that Great Recession was still a factor. Plus last time I checked planes still ran on fossil fuels so unless there is a corresponding drop in air travel its shows the flaw in Price’s analysis yet again. That’s the problem when blind hatred gets in the way of rational thought.

  • Richard

    @briilly brill brill

    You might want to read your your last post. I think you might have meant to say the oppose. Antway, your point is unclear. That’s the the problem when …

  • Anne M

    Here’s Peter Marriott’s conclusion:

    “These are my concepts only, but the broader point is this: a review of transit service in Downtown Vancouver that actually attempted to increase ridership, legibility and accessibility would likely find that Robson Street needs a two‑way, frequent, continuous transit service. In fact, I don’t see a plausible way for any other line to effectively serve the east end of Robson, which currently has only one‑way loop service from the #17 line. Closing off the possibility of transit service through Robson Square permanently limits future options to build Downtown transit ridership.”

    What he says makes sense to me. Read the full essay here: http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/circling-the-square-4/

  • ned

    Roger #11 #12
    Eaaasssy big fella!
    All I said was that lots of people were gravely inconvenienced so that a few may linger in the sun like a bunch of bums in the middle of the afternoon. No need to blow it out of proportions, please…

  • Aurora

    Good on the re-open of 800 Robson St! Its closure is ridiculous – a half-baked idea in a poor location. I vote maintain this block open to bus traffic only. A good compromise, that serves both locals and tourists with an open direct transit route to the city centre.

    As an alternative for the public space everyone so obviously wants and desires, and for sure, is badly needed & overdue in the city — it’s high time and nearly 20 years overdue the City of Van look at the biggest DEAD space – bar none – in the city – the massive plaza outside Library Square! There is your public space just begging to be utilized! Walking by this massive, bricked open plaza day or night, winter or summer, it’s shocking this plaza is not filled with people sitting, eating, talking, drinking at more outdoor cafes, whatever! The possibilities for this plaza are entirely reminiscent of a European plaza. Furthermore, Library Square would now serve as an excellent link between the city core/ Yaletown and Chinatown/ Hastings – the new up and coming areas of Vancouver. This is the public space to be utilized – NOT a major public transit arterial block like 800 Robson St.