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A quiet STIR project

June 17th, 2010 · 11 Comments

While the STIR projects in the West End have been getting a lot of publicity, STIR (Short Term Incentives for Rental) have been quietly making their way through city hall for other neighbourhoods.

When I was at the Marine Gateway urban design panel hearing, this project at 1418 East 41st got a quick approval earlier in the meeting. I also haven’t heard a word about it from that neighbourhood. It is a heavily immigrant neighbourhood, so I acknowledge that could be a reason. But it could also be that it’s a much lower building. It’s still quite different from the small single-family houses on the rest of the block — but not a tower.

The problem, I suspect, with trying to build something this size in the West End is that when you’re paying $3 or $4 million for the land, I doubt that the 47 rental apartments here, even with some bonus density, will pay the costs.

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  • Joe Just Joe

    The 41st building will be a 4 storey building in a zone that is c2 zoned so it already allowed for 4 stories. It has an FSR of 2.33 so they have not asked for any additional density. The only thing they appear to be received will be waived costs. Probably why there is no complaints as it’s a building that could’ve been built with or w/o STIR.

  • Joe Just Joe

    My apologies it appears it’s currently zoned C1 not C2. Still the differences are very modest, and it’s exteremly unlikely that a c2 rezoning wouldn’t have been granted on any application.

  • Sarah Isaacs

    Great and very interesting comparison! So this is a STIR project under the ‘simple’ stream, i.e., does not require a rezoning?

    It also meets the following STIR provision, particularly in building materials, which has been ignored for STIR applications in the West End:

    G. THAT Council instruct staff to seek affordability in projects submitted for STIR incentives through finishing, size, location and other design considerations.

    In reading about the STIR program I would have assumed that city staff would have to adhere to this requirement, but it does not even appear to be a consideration. Does anyone know why?

  • Sarah Isaacs

    Oops spoke to soon. Building materials look pretty swanky.

  • Living in the West End

    Per VanMap the 2010 assessed land value is $1,011,000 for the 14,098 sq. ft lot. The developer proposes to build about 33,000 sq.ft. including commercial on the ground floor and 34 rental units on floors 2- 4. The FSR is 2.33.

    Assessment Year Year Built Big Improvement

    Year
    1 024729604 750230080000 LAND 5704 KNIGHT ST V5P 2V3 1 715 LMP45258 BLOCK 1 PLAN LMP45258 DISTRICT LO T 715 NEW WESTMINSTER PARCEL 1, GR OUP 1. 1254000 24600 1011000 39000 2010 1964 1964

  • Living in the West End

    Since this property is on the corner of Knight and 41st I assure you that this will not be a quiet place to live. The truck traffic on Knight is substantial.

  • kermit

    I live near this project and asked several questions of the planner on it…I have heard very little in response.

    No landscape plan, street trees, pedestrian improvements…seems CPTED unfriendly…but it’s tough to know without more details.

  • Tessa

    @kermit: What’s CPTED?

    Some more STIR projects of that size would be nice, though. Is there a list of all STIR projects approved thus far?

  • kermit

    Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design.

    It’s tough to say if it incorporates it or not from these drawings..but it’s things like active windows looking out on public space, low fencing and landscaping, etc…

  • Westender

    …and I think the question the community is left asking is “what IS required to pay the costs” (of the rental housing)? Is it double the number of units at this location? (As proposed and approved at 1142 Granville) Is it quadruple? (As requested at 1401 Comox)? Is it whatever the developer desires?
    Even just looking at the basic land cost per residential square foot of floor area, the land value at the 41st and Knight project is only 7% cheaper than at Comox (and that assumes someone purchased the Knight Street property at its asseessed value.)

  • michael geller

    I, and no doubt others have been very interested in reading the recent Fabula posts related to STIR housing and the community consultation and planning process.

    There have been some provocative ‘allegations’ and many good questions raised regarding the STIR program. I know that City staff do read this blog, and I think it would be very helpful to many of the concerned residents who have posted on this site, if some responses were provided.

    Perhaps the Director of Planning can share some answers here.

    If he prefers not to respond here, I would encourage one of the West (E)nders or someone else with good writing skills consolidate the concerns and questions into an open letter to the Director of Planning, with copies to the Mayor and Counci)

    One of the points I would stress, as noted in many of the posts, is that this program was introduced without any apparent ‘rules’ or guidelines when it came to those projects requiring rezonings. Can you exclude all of the additional rental FSR? Can you get a condo bonus in addition to the rental FSR exclusion? Etc. Is there a limit on the FSR increase? Twice the permitted density…three times the permitted density….five times the permitted density???

    It’s not sufficient to say ‘whatever it takes’ to make the project sufficiently attractive to a landowner or developer…

    I know that many people in the planning and development professions, and the broader community would be interested in the city’s response.

    My view is that the program need not be cancelled. (Brent, did you really tell Sarah Isaacs it’s no longer needed? ) Now is a good time to increase the stock of rental housing, especially given the lower construction costs, and the deteriorating supply of rental housing in older buildings, especially in the West End.

    Don’t be fooled by the ‘vacancy rate’. Yes, it is much higher than it was in November 2008 when the election took place. But there is a need for new rental housing stock. And with the softening condo market, now is a good time to create it.

    But there is also a need for some ‘rules’ and guidelines, to help the industry and the community evaluate the merits of future proposals.

    This applies not just to the STIR program…it applies to other potential ‘spot rezonings’, especially those where the city is looking forward to ‘selling’ heritage density, or sharing in the financial ‘lift.

    At the moment, many of us don’t feel that we know what might be acceptable, and what will not. There has always been uncertainty related to rezonings, but in the ‘old days’ many of us could tell which projects would likely make it, and which would not.

    We don’t have this intelligence at the moment, in part because of the city’s interest in generating ‘rent’, as Dr. Michael Goldberg put it in a talk to UDI yesterday, from rezonings. When you SELL ZONING, the rules seem to change.

    By the way, for those of you not at his talk, he thought that the city and region was being very timid when it came to rezoning around transit nodes, and very foolish in its attempt to sell zoning…noting the latter will backfire.

    But that’s another story.