Some Vancouver bike lanes are green, some are not. What gives?
Question: Why aren’t all bike lanes in the city painted green?
Answer: Money. Money,money, money. That’s what transportation engineer Jerry Dobrovolny told me last week, when I nabbed him just before the viaducts report.
I had thought perhaps they were limiting the green because of some other reason. I noticed a couple of times when I drove over a green spot in the rain that my wheels seemed to slide. (Someone standing beside Jerry said maybe I was driving too fast, when I asked about that. So unlikely! Every time I have to cross a bike lane on Dunsmuir, where it happened, I’m so terrified I’m going to hit a cyclist inadvertently, because it’s very hard to see behind as you’re turning right off Dunsmuir, that I’m usually creeping along.)
But he said, no, the green paint is actually mixed with some sand and they’re even less slippy than regular asphalt. But engineering just doesn’t have the budget to paint all of the lanes instantly. So they’re chugging along, doing it slowly but surely.
28 responses so far ↓
1 IanS // Jul 31, 2012 at 10:15 am
Ahh.. so this is what they meant by the world’s “greenest city”.
2 Mark // Jul 31, 2012 at 10:38 am
Ah, I was wondering about that. Where the 10th Ave. Bikeway crosses Clark only one side of the street is painted, and only in one direction… Seemed a little strange.
I dig the paint, nice cheap way to bring up visibility for safety, good to have an extra reminder when making a turn through a bike lane.
3 ThinkOutsideABox // Jul 31, 2012 at 12:41 pm
On a side note, I was watching the Olympics women’s cycling road race the other day and couldn’t help but notice they were all wearing “styrofoam hats” those here affectionately call them.
Does London / or the Olympics have some mandatory bike helmet laws they’re enforcing for these dubious safety devices? Or fashion statement?
4 teririch // Jul 31, 2012 at 1:35 pm
I read somewhere that Spain is bringing back mandatory bike helmets.
5 Grant // Jul 31, 2012 at 1:37 pm
As a cyclist, I really, really, really like these green markings. They’ve made an instant improvement on some “trouble spots”. Unlike signage, which adds visual clutter, they’re a distraction-free cue.
For example, exiting Stanley Park along Georgia was a gauntlet of right-hooks, where drivers abruptly swerve off Georgia across a bike lane. I still see right-hooks here, but fewer than before, and drivers tend to realize they’ve done something wrong rather than repeating the same mistake without noticing.
I’m also glad to hear they’re mixed-in and not painted-on, since my mental map of “danger spots” is already peppered with faded-to-invisible bike markings.
6 Richard // Jul 31, 2012 at 2:02 pm
@ThinkOutsideABox
Good point! In auto racing too helmets are required therefore people who drive cars around cities at much lower speeds should be required to wear helmets.
7 Bill Lee // Jul 31, 2012 at 3:41 pm
However, motorists don’t seem to know what to do, stop before the green splodge, or on top of it (maybe a cyclist or two).
Fabula slides through the green splodge.
I am thinking of green pavement/tarvac north of Dunsmuir on Richards, or Cambie streets.
So much better than the discredited ‘Sharrows’
I’d like to see the green paint also beside the white “ghost bikes”
[ Hmm, none here for Vancouver: http://ghostbikes.org/ghostbikemap, but the Danes have some 'Spøgelsescykel' noted, and the Germans note many such 'Mahnrad or Geisterrad' around the world at de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Bike ]
Want to know the daytime and nighttime chromaticity coordinates for green lanes for bicycles?
“Approval for Optional Use of Green Colored Pavement for Bike Lanes (IA-14)”
mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interim_approval/ia14/index.htm
These are still FHWA Experiments in Progress.
8 Richard // Jul 31, 2012 at 3:55 pm
@6Bill Lee
Good point. Not surprising that people not sure what the green paint is all about. Or other features like bike boxes and cross bikes. There has been no effort here to educate people about them. In Portland, they have done media campaigns around them. This is badly needed here.
9 Don // Jul 31, 2012 at 5:05 pm
There is absolutely no point in doing this unless it is explained.
It is really odd along Great Northern Way – the SIDEWALK is painted (sorry Grant#4, it IS painted on) green wherever it crosses a private driveway.
Had the usual hair-raising walk along the SE False Creek Seawall around Science World and Olympic Village today – bikes as blasting through pedestrians, kids, tiny dogs etc. – no consistent, or even comprehensible, markings either on signage or on surfaces.
This extremely dangerous situation should take priority over green paint program.
Perhaps we need a flesh-coloured paint program to alert bicyclists to the presence of vulnerable pedestrians.
10 Richard // Jul 31, 2012 at 5:20 pm
@Don
Along Great Northern away, it is a shared path for peds and bikes. As the number of people using it increases, the city should create separate bike and ped paths.
It is rather chaotic around the Village and Science World. One of the solutions is to create better bike routes on the streets near there so all the bike traffic is not funneled by there. Separated bike lanes on Main, Quebec and 2nd would help. With all the new housing going in near the Village and along Main, the problems are only going to increase.
Trimming some of the grass would help improve visability.
11 Richard // Jul 31, 2012 at 5:22 pm
@Don
Also a good point about the signs and markings. Not enough and hard to figure out. The city and Park Board need to be pushed on this.
12 Chris Keam // Aug 1, 2012 at 7:32 am
There are ghost bikes at 12th and Windsor, for Amy Hurn killed there last year and at Quebec and 8th for Dan Winnick.
I think the a reason the multi-use paths along Great Northern Way are working is because there are so few pedestrians. The hill at Clark/GNW, where cyclists descend quickly into clots of VCC Skytrain exiters seems like a collision in waiting, esp. as volumes of both cohorts continue to rise. It’s too bad the best solution, a separated lane on the roadway and dedicated pedestrian sidewalk appears handcuffed by the usual suspect, on-street parking.
http://www.vancourier.com/PHOTO+GALLERY+STORY+Ghost+bicycle+memorializes+late+cyclist+teacher/6516410/story.html
13 Bill Lee // Aug 1, 2012 at 1:37 pm
I was by 12th and Windsor the other day, no bike there. White bike at Quebec and 8th still there, though some text would be a good idea.
Has the results of an enquiry on the teacher Amy Hurn’s death been released.
I was surprised that such a collision could occur there, so open, so obvious at the bottom of a short hill.
12th Avenue, along its full length has always been a racing, crazy street.
14 Bill Lee // Aug 1, 2012 at 1:40 pm
“It is rather chaotic around the Village and Science World. One of the solutions is to create better bike routes on the streets near there so all the bike traffic is not funneled by there. Separated bike lanes on Main, Quebec and 2nd would help. With all the new housing going in near the Village and along Main, the problems are only going to increase. ”
Cyclists think that thin wheels and no apparent restrictions mean that they can take any straight line route they want to make, like skiers with virgin snow.
More routes would not help. Better funnelling with barriers, the Dunsmuir death tracks and so would push cyclists into their “own lanes.”
15 Richard // Aug 1, 2012 at 5:23 pm
@14Bill Lee
Forcing hi volumes of bike traffic on a few routes makes absolutely no sence at all. Forcing people to travel further increases the risk of crashes especially if the have to cross busy intersections or along busy streets to get to the bike routes. It also increases the chance that they will not cycle and drive instead increasing congestion and risk to other people in cars, on foot and on bike.
16 Don // Aug 2, 2012 at 1:02 am
The more I see of cyclists, the more relieved I am that they are not piloting something even more lethal.
17 Mark // Aug 2, 2012 at 11:41 am
@Don
Yes, it really is terrifying to see those cyclists zipping around.
Nothing at all like my relaxed and pleasant drives to and from work where every motorist follows the rules to a T and never takes risks that endanger the lives of everyone around them all so they can get to the next red light a few seconds faster.
18 James Deroux // Aug 2, 2012 at 11:52 am
@thinkoutsideabox#3
@richard#6
At the risk of appearing humorless, bringing evidence from sports cycling to bear on the debate over ticketing grocery-shoppers on BIXI is an unhelpful distraction. The two are very distinct; indeed, the core critique of our adult helmet law is that it fails to distinguish them and so snuffs out the latter.
19 Don // Aug 2, 2012 at 1:23 pm
@Mark
I’m not suggesting that there is not a certain percentage of motorists out there who drive recklessly and/or inconsiderately – of course there are, and they are a huge problem, in part because their rides consist of thousands of pounds of fast-moving metal. I’m certainly glad that they’re not driving on the seawall.
I both drive and ride a bike. In my opinion, an even higher percentage of cyclists are reckless ignoramuses who do whatever they please – ignore stop signs and lights, don’t bother signaling, ride on crowded sidewalks (even when those sidewalks are adjacent to separated bike lanes), ride the wrong way on one-way streets, through groups of pedestrians in crosswalks – and are either unaware of or indifferent to their impact on the safety and peace of mind of motorists, pedestrians, pets – and fellow cyclists.
Again, I am glad these nitwits are not riding/driving something more lethal than bikes.
20 ThinkOutsideABox // Aug 2, 2012 at 7:56 pm
People should be mindful and considerate of each other regardless of mode of transport.
I give wide distance when I see someone driving a car sharing vehicle, because generally I’ve noticed they have sloppy dangerous driving habits. Why? I’m guessing because they don’t drive often enough to be mindful of it.
@Richard – you haven’t seen how fast I can cycle on Pacific!
21 Bill Lee // Aug 3, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Green paint, black paint.
Neither controls the traffic, cars or bikes.
See the **@(# Comments in the story of bicycle couriers looking for a good image, for more of what others off the bikes see in the urban crush.
http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1750305
A local bike messenger wants to bring some respect to his profession.
VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)
Laura Baziuk
8/2/2012
[ more ]
22 Michael Alexander // Aug 8, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Vancouver has applied the green thermoplastic paint with great sophistication. Instead of trying to paint the entire lane (as, for example, San Francisco), Vancouver uses the green paint only at potential points of conflict, such as intersections, and to identify where bikes should be, such as bike boxes.
This is a very wise use of taxpayers money, because the stuff is damned expensive. It also must survive very challenging conditions– rain, snow, grease, oil, acids, abrasion from tires and heavy vehicles…
Richard is correct about its use on Great Northern Way, where there has been a problem with cars exiting driveways and not stopping before they cross the wide shared sidewalk. You will see similar uses where the Dunsmuir and Hornby separated lanes intersect parkade driveways.
The new applications of green on Smithe St., on both sides of Burrard, are good examples of how a discrete use of thermoplastic have helped keep bikes and cars separated.
Education about what the green means is much needed, but the most effective place to introduce it is in the drivers manual and driving test. Unfortunately, the legislature is not very responsive to such needs.
I find the new lime green colour especially welcome, and the city is to be commended for choosing it. It is distinctive and seems to not fade like the old red which one sees in spots around town (Union and Main is a disintegrating example).
I do wish that commenters would stay on topic, and not use every mention of a bicycle to rerun the tired debates about rude cyclists, and the politics of helmets.
23 Michael Alexander // Aug 8, 2012 at 3:36 pm
@ Don
The Science World construction site is one of the worst examples of pedestrian and bicycle management I have ever seen. As Don says, the area is heavily used. Unfortunately, the contractor is constantly moving the fence lines so that even regular users are often confused about where they are supposed to be.
There has been no attempt to separate pedestrians and cyclists, and the lane provided is often too narrow for the number of people.
Where the main parking lot paralleling Quebec begins, the contractor has installed two fences that narrow the pathway, and placed signs only on the north side of the fences. At night the dark blue fences, with the unlighted black tarmac behind, are nearly invisible.
This condition is not exactly a public relations plus for Science World, nor for the sponsors who generously support it.
24 Bill Lee // Aug 8, 2012 at 7:42 pm
And they had better not disguise ‘dips’ and potholes with green-ish paint.
In a Wednesday story in the Globe and Mail.
“Toronto cyclist dies after wheel gets trapped in unused streetcar track”
by STEPHEN SPENCER DAVIS
The Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Aug. 07 2012, 12:36 PM EDT
Last updated Wednesday, Aug. 08 2012, 11:36 AM EDT
…”In a complaint submitted in Washington State Superior Court in 2010, Mr. Anderton argued that the city had breached its duty to keep streets safe, by failing to provide adequate warnings for a streetcar route that it had acknowledged posed a danger to cyclists.
“We spent all this money to create a danger knowingly,” Mr. Anderton said.
A judge recently dismissed Mr. Anderton’s case, but others have been more successful, including two Montreal cases.
Marnie Scanlan, a 33-year-old personal trainer was thrown more than two car lengths from her bike in 2003 after hitting an indentation in the road. She broke her shoulder and tore her rotator cuff, requiring several surgeries.
The City of Montreal argued that cyclists were responsible for avoiding potholes, but testimony revealed that the indentation was not easily visible. Ms. Scanlan was awarded $113,193.10.
Four years later, Juliet Wilson Davies crashed her bike after her wheel became trapped in the grates of a drain in a small viaduct. She suffered multiple injuries to her face, wrist and hand, and a skull fracture left her paralyzed.
Again, the City of Montreal argued that the responsibility for spotting hazards lay with the cyclist. But after testimony showed that the grates covered the width of the road, Ms. Davies was awarded $868,820. Her husband and daughter were awarded $10,000.
[ more>> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-cyclist-dies-after-wheel-gets-trapped-in-unused-streetcar-track/article4466970/ ]
25 Bill Lee // Aug 8, 2012 at 7:47 pm
And I noticed on the bike route at 7th Ave. and Yukon, that the street had the old “red” paint designating the bike path and crossing.
More for pedestrians it seems.
There is a new category in the Vancouver City bike map. (see public library for handfuls) with “bike boxes” painted green and the new “Crossbike” called “Elephants feet” [ no apostrophe! ] in city jargon of green with white blotches beside them.
You might find the map on the http://www.former.vancouver.ca site.
26 ThinkOutsideABox // Aug 8, 2012 at 11:56 pm
I do wish that commenters would stay on topic, and not use every mention of a bicycle to rerun the tired debates about rude cyclists, and the politics of helmets.
And I wish less trite and pedantic comments would be representative of cycling and cyclists here on Bula. Oh well. Can’t have it all…
27 Brian // Aug 15, 2012 at 11:32 am
#26, you read my mind.
Here I am at the bottom of the comments thread for an article related to cycle infrastructure and I’ve forgotten what the article is about, having read through the same old arguments about what mode has the most dangerous and reckless users, with an implication that this has any effect on who deserves safety infrastructure. I usually expect more from this blog’s commentors.
28 Bill Lee // Aug 15, 2012 at 11:52 am
Further to 7th and Yukon, a block east of Cambie: it is the intersection of the new and old.
While I noted the old red markings (and narrowness of the marked path) going east on 7th. There is a set of the new green paint on Yukon going south.
I’m sure that when the 311 minions have passed this on to the powers that be, Penny Ballem will be down from the Hall in an instance with green paint cans in her bicycle panniers. This must be the reason she rides a thicker framed “mountain bike” in the city.
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