While I like the idea of the ambassadors I feel many people have an issue with them being run by a private company paid for with taxpayer money. I’m sure if the city took them inhouse the total cost would be about the same, the ambassadors themselves would make a bit more money thus being able to attract and keep better people. It would also reduce some issues people have about them. Personally I’d be fine with the status quo. We’d all love to have the VPD walk the beat and do what they do, but they won’t and even if they would we couldn’t afford it.

I won’t miss the Ambassadors. They were a good idea in theory, but in practice they often acted more like a goon squad, at least when dealing with the homeless. I vividly recall an encounter with them a couple of years ago. I was walking to work along Seymour about 8 AM when I came upon two Ambassadors shaking down a homeless person who’d been sleeping, covered with cardboard, in a doorway where the homeless often sleep (the building houses a social service agency and I have to presume that the proprietors don’t have a serious problem with people sleeping there; it’s not the main entrance to the building). They were shouting at him and threatening to have him arrested if he didn’t get his ass out of there, now! As I passed by I mildly suggested that they might take a more civil tone; it wasn’t the poor sod’s fault he had to sleep in that doorway. They both turned on me and threatened *me* with arrest (i.e. calling the cops to have me arrested) if I didn’t move on, pronto. I did.

I’ve since observed similar incidents involving the Ambassadors several times. Either the Ambassadors I’ve encountered were all very poorly trained, or the ugly rumours about their mandate to harass the homeless and indigent are true. Regardless, in no way should the city have been funding them– they are an arm of a private company– and the new Council’s decision to curtail that funding is welcome. Better and more humanistic ways to deal with street-level social problems in this city must be found.

Under-cover loss prevention is not part of the Ambassador program. Human rights training is. Authorization by a property owner to request compliance with the tresspact act is part of what they can do if the situation is appropriate and legal.

Every security company in the city becomes an Ambassador in these kinds of conversations. They are not. Formal complaints are minimal and if they do come… they are treated seriously.

As I said earlier – the program is not perfect – neither are employees, just like police are not perfect, citizens are not perfect, street people are not perfect and the law is not perfect.

Bottom line is we still have a huge void in what the police have time and mandate for and the question still remains – if not Ambassadors… what then.

“well liked in Gastown” – I am a resident of Gastown.

Before the Ambassdors showed up, the BIA (I assume) hired a private security guard to do what the Ambassadors basically are “supposed” to be doing – we had a regular guard or two from the company the BIA contracted, and they were a constant familiar face. Respectful, friendly, sweet to not only residents, but to tourists, the homeless, the drug addicted, and seemed to know many business owners/employees by name.

Then the DA showed up – never have I seen them smile, offer directions to a lost tourist wondering how to get to Chinatown looking at Carral and Hastings. They stomp around, smoke outside starbucks and flirt with the employees, harass the panhandlers (I’ve seen them be rude and get into shouting matches more than once) and, if I was in some state of distress, they are NOT someone I would want to run to for assistance. They are completely unfriendly, and look like they hate their jobs. I don’t know what they are doing down there, but I can’t wait until they are gone and we can either have beat cops (which really, in that hood, SHOULD be on patrol all the time, if ANY neighborhood) or our old security guards.

The DAs in Gastown are AWFUL.

I guess that doesn’t include the Commercial drive ambassadors whom I saw harassing some squeegie kid today.

Jeannette I to am a resident of Gastown and have been for years, I have no idea how you could say the drug use is as bad as it was, the area is now night and day. I don’t account it all on the ambassadors, when Gastown BIA was using Palladin guards they were doing a good job as well but I have definetally seen an improvement since the Ambassadors took over. I’m sorry your experiences are so terrible but they do not represent the community. Attend a meeting of the Gastown historic planning committee which is run by members of the public that live in the area and they will tell you about the vast improvement to the area, in which the ambassadors have planed a large role.

Last summer I was walking with my 8 yr old son at Cordova and Columbia and we came across two Ambassadors writing a note in chalk on the sidewalk. My son, always curious, stopped and read the message out loud as the Ambassadors and I stood there. It read:

“Tourist Alert: Hastings Drug District ahead. Not for children’s eyes.”

A rather bizarre message for an “Ambassador” to write, wouldn’t you say?

The awkward conversation that followed left both my son and I shaking our heads. These Ambassadors had zero compassion, tact, understanding of their job, or people skills. They had no idea how to deal with my kid, let alone an adult questioning their actions. I doubt either of them even knew what the word “diplomacy” means.

Any improvement in the Gastown streets cannot possibly be tied to the Ambassadors, and if the BIA makes that tenuous conclusion, then they should probably hire someone new to do their research. The recent improvement on the streets in Gastown is undoubtedly due to the shelters that opened recently. If the Ambassadors really wanted to do good in Gastown, they would stop all the club hoppers with weak bladders and the exploding population of designer dog owners from using the area as a giant toilet. Give them plastic bags and make them clean up all the dog shit everywhere. Now that would be money well spent.

Yeah, Jeannette, funny thing about those messages is that I had taken my son to the Vancouver Museum about a week before, and they had an activity about the “Hobo Code”. During the Depression, hobos used to write chalk messages in code telling other travellers if a place was safe, a good place to eat, where to find a place to sleep, etc. The Ambassadors — or whoever dreamed up their using these chalk messages last summer — were obviously playing off the Hobo Code, probably in conjunction with Tourist Office. Unfortunately, the information they (the Ambassadors, not the hobos)conveyed was alarmist, puerile, judgemental and often totally bizarre. It made everyone — tourists, residents, addicts, homeless, business owners — utterly embarrassed to have to pass these ridiculous messages every day. This is the exact opposite to what an “Ambassador” should be doing.

Commercial drive does not have ambassadors and ambassadors ar enot permitted to write chalk remarks. Get over it people. They have helped in many ways and are not perfect. For interest Ambassadors started in Gastown in June 2008. They have never worked the Commercial drive area. There are many companies that use red and black uniforms. Make sure you see Downtown Ambassador on the back before you attribute behaviour. If you see something you don’t like then call the Gastown BIA and be precise. Time, date, location, and identifying call sign located on the right breast pocket. It will be dealt with. Smoking by a doorway, no problem, call the Gastown BIA or the DVBIA at 604 685-7811 with details and it will be resolved. If an identifiable ambassador marked something in chalk, that is not something the program supports and was the action of an individual who would not be an ambassador long if someone took the step to report it.

Riiiiiigggght, Sharon and Dave Jones!!! One of you says they were in Gastown last summer, the other says they weren’t. If they weren’t working there, then what the hell were they doing writing chalk messages on the sidewalks, smoking outside of Starbucks or Al’s Pizza? Clearly, their bosses and the BIA had no control over what they were doing, and apparently don’t even know where they were doing it. (See the blog Beyond Robson for another Gastown dust-up with the Ambassadors that was recorded). Thankfully, the debate is moot. They’re gone.

“Dave Jones” wrote:
“They are people who face many of the most tragic and difficult people in our society while having no powers other than to model citizenship wherever they can and to whomever they can.”

I cannot believe that anyone actually managed to write that with a straight face. I am someone whose job it is to actually “face many of the more tragic and difficult people in our society”, and I can tell you with complete certainty that if I *ever* got up to what I see the DAs doing to the poor in Gastown, I would be fired in a heartbeat.

The DAs are unprofessional. They are unrestrained. They personalize disputes that are contextual to their roles. They are verbally abusive. And they intrude in places they have absolutely no right to intrude – for example, screaming at people who are panhandling, shooing people with carts off the block, or “moving along” anyone who looks like they might be a drag on business.

I also beg to differ with the assertion that open drug use and drug dealing have improved. Have you gotten a look at Blood Alley lately? It’s a hellhole, and the dealers who have moved in are several shades of nasty worse than the usual low-level dealers we used to have down there. Cordova between Carrall and Abbott is turning into a nightmare. And there are problems around Maple Tree Square that most definitely didn’t exist six months ago.

Complaints aren’t minimal because the DAs are professional – it’s just that nobody bothers to complain. I mean, come on – a panhandler has a reasonable expectation of a positive outcome when they call the Gastown BIA to complain about their private security? Is anyone naive enough to believe that?

I’ve lived in gastown for 7 years now and am happy to see the DA’s go. Like a couple others have mentioned, I’ve personally witnessed what at best can be called harassment of our marginalized fellow citizens. It’s nuts: Patrons of the Modern Club are not monitored as they arrive with open beer cans, and leave the premises and piss on people’s doorways, but at 8am Sunday morning people without homes who are pathetically sleeping against buildings, in no-one’s way, are woken up and moved along (an illegal act by the DAs, incidentally, when it’s public space).
I don’t blame the individual DAs, but until the company can train better and have a super-clear mandate that protecting against shoplifting is one thing, and “cleaning up the neighbourhood” according to a select group of citizens in the community is another, the company should not have their contract renewed by anyone, much less the city.

badge number, date, time, location, photo perhaps? that’s all that is needed. We take all complaints seriously but we will not take responsibility for people we don’t employ or events we cannot substantiate. I equate that to witch hunting.

Nothing would make me happier than to redirect self assessed funds spent by my BIA on security toward things that actually directly benefit local businesses like marketing. That is going to take beat cops, bylaw enforcement (other than parking) and health care workers in my neighbourhood in a deterrent mode rather than crisis response mode.

I don’t see that happening any time soon so again… please offer us an alternative. We are doing the best we can with the resourses we have to make our neighbourhoods clean, safe and a great place to live – for everyone. Instead of beating us up for it, perhaps you may want to chip in an help out.

I can only speak for the DA program in my jurisdiction. Complaints are dealt with seriously and immediately. In 18 months there have been 2 complaints. One was about a DA sitting on a bench having a nap. He was on his lunchhour. Now DA must sit inside a warm stuffy office to have their lunch so people don’t think they are slacking off. If they want a cigarette, they have to do like everyone else and go outside. The other complaint was an interpretation of the tresspass act. The situation was resolved and dealt with within 24 hours – no debate required. I challenge you to find another organization that would respond as quickly or without a lengthy investigation. We err on the side of caution – always.

I have said it several times, no program is perfect but I take strong exception to the inference that the BIA is anything less than professional in its conduct or attitude.

I stand by my reference to witch hunting.

I will say it again… time, date, call number, location.

The original blog post by Frances was never intended to debate the merits of the DA program -which Councillor Louie publicly agrees is a good program! The blog post was to discuss the City of Vancouver’s reversal of a motion that was passed by the previous administration.

I highly doubt that we are going to look through the same lens on this subject any time soon so my question becomes back to what is a viable alternative to the program expansion that Council has now cancelled.

OK this is out of hand. Opinions are one thing, allegations another. If there is a solid example I can investigate please send it to me at the email or call at 604 685.7811 and arrange a time when we can meet to discuss.

That’s funny – when I posted my comment, Dave Jones’s must have been in the moderation queue. I’ll be sure people have that contact information so that we can document and report issues in the future.

Wow, I wish I’d know about this string in February, I hope it’s still being monitored.
I would like to add my own two cents to this posting, being someone who has not only dealt with both incarnations of the Gastown security and who has also lived in the area since 2000. I have also been assaulted by one of these supposed professional ambassador and spent thousands of hours volunteering in the downtown area since 1996.

Aside from this I have knowledge of Dave Jones, whom is a Security Consultant & head of crime prevention for the DVBIA. Under Jones, the DVBIA hired the Ambassadors using Genesis (Paladin first?) Security guards. As for Sharon Townsend, the Executive Director of the South Granville BIA, I have only ever sent her one e-mail concerning a video I have on youtube concerning the ambassadors.

Okay, here goes. First we are told that everyone in Gastown very much likes the ambassadors and then, practically in the same breath wee are told that people think it’s a good program. Of course concerned citizens are going to jump off topic when they consider things to be otherwise, honestly, what do you expect.

So let’s tackle the main question of this forum; who should pay for them? This question, in my mind anyway, is relatively easy to answer. Two things must occur, a program must be established that is in good form and can be funded inexpensively by the involved partners (the BIA’s and the City). This can likely be done in a couple of ways that I can think of, one in particular that I like goes thusly;

Primarily, an amalgam might occur in which a member of the VPD and a security company (likely on a two or three year contract with the BIA’s) teams up to patrol prime beat areas in tandem.

This solves a problem that I’ve heard from both groups, that the police have nominal respect for the security companies providing this service, apparently because they think that they feel they’re taking food out of their mouths and are unreliable want–to-be cops.

If this were to occur the ambassador would gains insight into the workings of the police force (if that’s the direction they opt to head in), not to mention it looks good on the resume. The rookie officers on the other hand could walk the beat as an enhancement to their regular shift work for additional union benefits and seniority that they might not otherwise be entitled to, at a reduced pay rate of course. A partnership like this might even become a prerequisite for some or all VPD recruits.

Anyway, that’s the bones of it, what do you think? All I know is that it would be nice to see the police back on the beat in some capacity other than on party nights when they have to deal en-mass with raunchy drunks or when they swarm Starbucks in breaks.

Now concerning the frustration with the Ambassadors that I have heard while scanned through this forum, I must say, I’m right there with you, being someone who was attacked by a rabid variety of the genus. Then I was ignored and finally slandered by the Executive Director who posted on this thread just above me.

I might as well go through the forum person by person;

WAGAMUFFIN, the VPD do walk the beat but not nearly as often as anyone would hope so yes the Ambassadors do provide a presence, though I rarely see them on my alley behind the Van Horne which Paladin Security used to patrol several times a day when they had the GBIA contract.

NRFM, The Ambassadors I think are run by both the DVBIA (a not-for-profit organization) and Genesis, originally with ½ the money coming from the city, the other half from local business taxes. As for attracting and keeping better people if they were taken over by the city, it is a growing market so here’s hoping for the future.

Though the drug trade is not quite as prevalent in front of the SRO hotels on Water Street, all sorts of people still use is the North alley behind Water Street or on Cordova Street. And of course the Carroll Street entrance to Blood alley is even worse now than previous years because it’s hard for the police to access due to the construction.

As for the volunteers picked by the city sitting on the Gastown Historic Planning Committee, only one person of the ten members is actually picked because they are a resident, it’s on their home page, I would have thought you knew that having gone to their meetings. From what it seems that person doesn’t even have to live in Gastown, just own residential property here.

I wasn’t terribly taken by your parable about the skaters either. It sounds like the guard simply may have alluded to the fact (or fiction) that something went down prior to the video that was created, that’s all the police need, and the employment standards people need (or what ever they call them in the states).

No matter, you know what you know I know what I know, I’m afraid that I have to give more credence to Stephanie’s declarations at this point though. I have seen ambassadors get overly frisky with individuals at times, as I’ve seen Paladin Security (and Concorde) do so, it happens.

Yes they do good, but in their position they must be above reproach. like not toking and passing joints in alleys frequented by drug abusers/dealers which I twice observed (but not in Gastown) and once I was told so by a trusted shop keeper.

MRS. TOWNSEND, yes the ambassadors program does fill a need but the only thing that the police seem to like about them is that when someone calls 911 for lesser crimes they get told to call the ambassadors to attend even though you eventually have to talk to the VPD to fill out a report and get a file number anyway.

Concerning notorious shoplifters, you can’t tell me that the ambassadors can make any better of a distinction then the shop keepers themselves as to whom not to trust in their stores when it comes to dealing with the poor.

These homeless and low/no income folks also know just where the free and cheap food and shelters are to be found in town, even the emergency ones for harsh weather. If they don’t, they can ask another street person, they do have a vast social network out there.

As for the business taxes that support the ambassadors, do they indeed still pay exactly 50% as you state, I’ve heard otherwise though perhaps I’m wrong? And about expansion, I know that I certainly wouldn’t provide the ambassadors more funding in their current incarnation, perhaps the city councilors are of the same mind, time will tell.

About the residential benefiting that you imply are generated from the area business in your writings, it seems that if the business wasn’t there they would have no need for most of these “benefits”, only the businesses that bring in the trash, need the banners and cute lil flower baskets and of course the street patrols. The community festivals on the other hand do bring in money to the businesses, many of them anyway.

Your statement “Instead think of them as a contribution to a collective sense of place for all to enjoy”, seemed a little over the top, something you gleaned from Dave Jones perhaps?

It is however great to hear that human rights training is part of the ambassador programs curriculum but what about anger management or violence in the workplace training? Also how long is this training, a week-long seminar or just a class?

As for your statement “the program is not perfect – neither are employees, just like police are not perfect, citizens are not perfect, street people are not perfect and the law is not perfect”, in this we are in full agreement, but I’ve already put my best foot forward when dealing with the ambassadors and was politely ignored until I put my foot down. Then I was trifled with and finally publically maligned by Charles Gauthier (Executive Director of the DVBIA) as well. I was also either lied to or Mr. Gauthier did so on Global TV as to the disposition of the individual in question. I certainly won’t sit still for this type of thing but I’m not so sure that someone homeless or drug addled might.

I tried the steps you suggested (to the letter) and after being polite and patient with your organization I publicized my concerns which took a load off my chest. Now it’s a civil matter.

Concerning your assumption that the Downtown Ambassadors were not working Gastown last summer, I believe Paladin’s contract ended sometime in June.

Also concerning your assumption that we are all drones assuming the worst (a witch hunt eh?); while, yes personal biases will be enforced when other people seem to have like problems with an organization like yours, but I’m sure that your whole organization isn’t a loss, maybe you can rebuild, spend a million or two on a revamp? What do you think?

Perhaps the ambassadors should specifically deal with tourists and their requirements rather than trying to deal with bi-law enforcement. Unless they want to privatize the VPD this really shouldn’t be your concern with the exception of private property issues which would be Genesis Security’s concern.

As for beating you up with words, I think I reserved the right. And concerning your comment about chipping in and helping out, I rarely call your people if there’s a potential for violence in my neighbourhood anymore, just call me gun-shy.

The bottom line in my eye here is that you have taken on a contract that you should have left alone. The city/province and federal governments are primarily at fault for not properly defining your situation so that all the ambassadors have to be is eyes and ears for the police in public areas, period (other than tourist guides of course). The blind leading the blind leading the blind, being lead by Mr. Scrooge whose only goal is to keep us off balance so he can make more money. As for Mr. Gauthier, anyone who makes off the cuff comments on TV really shouldn’t be the Executive Director of the Mickey Mouse Club. (note the period) much less our primary BIA.

The only thing you err on the side of is “cover our asses”-always. Yes I don’t doubt you have people working for you that are very professional but it is very easy to mar such professionalism with a few bad seeds whom you should have never hired for longer than a probationary period. So as I’ve stated, the problem seems to filter down from the top.

As for your last point, the question was “Who should pay for them?” This has to be determined by why they are really out there and whether or not the readers even feel that they should be viable at all so of course observations are going to be questioned when they seem invalid or uncertain.

GMGW, I actually heard of a number of complaints about the “goon squad” mentality you spoke of prior to the ambassadors arrival in Gastown, though I have to admit Concorde (Waterfront) and Paladin (Robson Square) seemed pretty much in the same boat, admittedly mostly here-say to myself though. Also bear in mind that the ambassador contract used to belong to Paladin several years ago, I don’t recall exactly how long ago.

I have noticed that a number of the ambassadors that roam the streets downtown seem either like happy green around the gills youth who are more likely to wet themselves in a crisis situation than actually perform their duties in a fluid and appropriate manner (what ever that is). Others are stoic, if not goonish and unethical in nature. Stoic I can handle but sometimes it’s difficult to differentiate between someone who won’t smile and someone who is miserable or angry.

JEANNETTE M, I have heard that the GBIA lost Paladin in Gastown not because they were doing a bad job but because of a cheaper contract bid by the ambassadors. The Paladin crew consisted mainly of Dale, Kerry, Sean, Nigel (who you may still see as an ambassador), Mike and a few other faces over about a six year period. In the last eleven months I have seen as many ambassadors down here as I ever saw while Paladin held the contract. How any of the floaters (from other areas) are supposed to know all the shop and street peoples names as indicated in this thread is beyond me.

As for other community involvement the ambassadors don’t spend as much time with the street people socially as Paladin used to but I have to admit seeing them make some attempt. Once I saw Dale (Paladin) stopped to chat with a street person for 40 minutes socially.

As well I have never seen an ambassador smoking in public though it’s not something I’m wary of, Paladin used to go into the alleys to eat, drink or smoke. I often visit Starbucks too and though I have seen the ambassador come in to sweet talk the ladies, they usually seem to be talking business, buying a coffee or using the facilities.

The main ambassador in Gastown (Rob) is always stoic but I have to admit I have never seen him abuse anyone or heard of such an incident concerning him. I do give you full credits for asking for beat cops to be placed in Gastown because of it’s location to drug central and it’s high tourist volume, City Hall should really be providing the proper help.

Many of your points I know to be valid and I’ll take your word on the others, with a grain of salt of course. You would think that they would have a generic map to hand out to visitors, with Gastown in the middle and highlights to Chinatown (with Sun Yat Sen), Skytrain (Seabus), Canada Place… Maybe in the future once the greenway is through.

I totally sympathize with your problems in Gastown, though I have personally seen more indiscretions by the Ambassadors in the downtown core. It’s kind of like witnessing some minor crime going on and then having to fill out a one or two page statement for the police, it’s often just not worth your time.

As for accrediting the Ambassadors with any changes, I don’t know, the area is always in a state of “flux” (a joke about the restaurant no longer across from Hill’s Native Arts) and gentrification has been ongoing since the early 1970’s. I do understand that the Ambassadors are not a treatment for the problem, just an attempt to shovel it elsewhere so others can deal with it. We wouldn’t need them if the various organizations designed to help them in our society (probably in the thousands) treated them like humans not problemed children or worse, babies (lets give them drugs to passify them). Many of the folks who are not mentally infirmed could be reintegrated into our society again if the powers that be could integrate and maximize the available resources, but that’s another story.

DAVE JONES, what do you expect when you don’t set a good example for your employees??? And for bloody sakes where did you learn to write like that, Wonderland, what a load of drivel?

Of course the ambassadors aren’t monsters, particular ones just need appropriate constructive guidance and someone who manages them who doesn’t give the benefit of the doubt to thugs or the misguided, at least for more than a trial bases. A particular hope of mine is that the individual who attacked me personally was one of the people who you indicate “made the wrong choice and have left the program because it does not suit their personality.”

As for your attempt to placate your readers by stating that open drug use and sales had been curtailed, I think that perhaps we might just find you stoned behind a Smythrite in Blood alley or laying in a hovel on Cordova Street. Yes a majority of the dealing has stopped in front of the SRO hotels by Subway but not all of it, and the smell of grass is still thick in the air on Water.

As for aggressive panhandlers (and druggies) that weren’t their in February but were in July, hmmm, why do you think that was, seasonal changes perhaps??? By the way, it’s now June and guess what…LUCY they’re back!!! Darn, there go those precious stats.

I don’t know where you got the idea about ambassadors on Commercial Drive (subterfuge???), and I guess the chalk talk just reinforces what’s been stated here, the Ambassadors need more guidance from their bosses if they are to further (?) become a welcome and able member of the community.

As for your comment about the many red and black uniform wearing security agencies, please give us an example of one other than Fusion that isn’t in-house, thanks.

A DAVE, yes, I watched from my Cordova Street window last summer as one of the sparkling new (a week or two old) Gastown ambassador (with his buddy, and yes they were ambassadors) bent down at Carroll and Cordova Street writing something on the sidewalk not fifteen feet from the methadone clinic. When I left my place only minutes later I noticed a similar sign as to the one you indicated in chalk had been left by them. I couldn’t understand why they would want to do something so bizarre to alienate themselves like that. Unfortunately I did not ask them why they did so the next time I saw them. I also found one a block away on Cordova at Abbott Street.

As for your last remarks about the gassed pub n club patrons and bad dog owners, yup been there too. Paladin used to be out on weekends until 10 pm on Fri. n Sat., I don’t know how late the ambassadors are. I don’t think the amabassadors could do much about the drunks though, except get beat up. A larger VPD presence now though.

They really should to put Porta-Potties out in the party areas, though they would probably just get overturned like everything else. As for the pooping puppies, I’ve embarrassed a few with a camera (as well as slowed speed freaks on Water).
STEPHANIE, you go girl, what was Dave Jones thinking? Like I’ve stated previously, I have only had a few problems with the ambassadors but that’s enough considering the magnitude of the crime and any closure I have yet to find. My concerns about area drug dealers parallels yours as well though I think that things will probably morph into yet another form once the greenway between Gassy Jack and Cordova Street is fully finished. Fewer places will be available for watchers to keep-six for the dealers without the fencing and the police will have use of the alley again to chase potentials through again. This is something else Dave Jones neglected to factor into his assumptions about how much change the ambassadors have actually created within the region.

As for Sharon Townsend’s comment about complaints, she is technically the Executive Director of the South Granville BIA, not Dave Jones’s DVBIA (the main one downtown) who hasn’t made any claim of the sort (I don’t wonder why). They (the DVBIA) has made claims in the past that were a bit of an eyebrow lifter in stating that the many complaints that they had received to date (2008) had been “dealt with amicably” or something such.

I’m not sure what you meant by sanctions, I assume you mean imposing fines on them or limiting their size? Anyway, I certainly like the thought of the DVBIA being more accountable, even if it’s forced upon them.

NANCY (aka money coach), I have to wonder if the mass police presence at the Modern at 1am isn’t to protect the tow truck drivers as they haul away a row of $70,000+ cars. Oh well, three years ago they only showed up five minutes into a blood brawl.

As for the ambassadors I sympathize with the homeless when they are harassed but in playing devils advocate loitering is illegal, though I think that the ambassadors should be obtaining (at the time or prior to) the land or business owners consent to “move people along”. I think there is a law concerning loitering under awnings on sidewalks as well.

As for your last comment about training, yes the problem starts at the top, not the bottom, you can’t blame individuals who are told to do their jobs in a certain way or given a minimal of guidance.

Something else that bothers me about the law in our berg is that when tourists get ripped off the perpetrators only have to deal with a few hours of jail and court because visitors won’t be in town for the trial date. I’m also almost expecting the laws to become so lax here that criminals are given finger shakes for sentences (or belly rubs if you really want to go left-wing).